Actually, the White House has been confirming that the plan to invade Iraq was set into motion as early as Sept 12, and certainly by November 2001. It is not a stretch to imagine that the will was present to do so before them.
Hardly a “conspiracy theory.”
John Bolton keeps trying to make the case that Cuba is just such a country- dictator, humans rights abuses, and potential WMD programs.
I don't think he is on the roll... the Iraq becoming a quagmire won't let Bush. Still I'm thinking of how voters rationalize this. Bush talked a lot about Axis of Evil and toppling Dictators. If he did no mistakes... then logically it follows that once Iraq is taken care of... that other regimes would be attacked. Politicially I know that is impossible... but how do Bush supporters figure out that Iraq is good and bad at the same time ?You whole argument rests on that assumption, and it’s incorrect. Bush never said he hadn’t made mistakes. He simply refused to answer (or was unable to answer) the reporter’s question about mistakes. His bumbled answer, in fact, implied that he **had ** made mistakes. He just said he wasn’t prepared to list them.
When you start with an incorrect assumption (Bush thinks he never makes mistakes), you will certainly arrive at an incorrect conclusion (Bush will invade other countries).
So either Bush is an idiot who doesn’t think he’s made any mistakes as POTUS, or he’s too gutless to owe up to the mistakes he’s made as POTUS. Which is better?
Patented rjung strawman alert…
OR, could it perhaps be that Bush is, you know, one of those politician things? I’d love to see what Clinton would have said if someone put him on the spot and asked what mistakes HE made WHILE he was in office, not after the fact (I seem to vaguely remember something about the word ‘if’…I’m sure it will come to me eventually…). So Bush wasn’t as polished and smooth about it as Tony Blair (who also evaded the question)…we knew that already as Bush isn’t as polished and smooth as most politicians are. That doesn’t mean that THEY didn’t or wouldn’t evade the question any more than he did…only that you were stupid enough to fall for it because they were smooth about it.
As to the OP…we won’t be invading other countries anytime in the future, baring some pretty drastic happenings, and if we did it wouldn’t be because Bush thought he had done everything right in any case. IF Bush gets re-elected (something I think is becoming more and more remote of a possibility as time passes), and IF we invade another country, it will be for something pretty drastic and obvious (i.e. a direct attack on the US that can be directly targetted to a nation state). We aren’t going to invade Syria based on some shadowy neo-con plan for world domination…certainly not after Iraq. It would take something fairly major and out in the open to get the US to do ANYTHING militarily for years to come.
So, your OP was flawed RM…as you probably knew when you wrote it. 
-XT
False dichotomy, and you know it.
Few, if any, politicians in Bush’s position (US prez) would give a serious answer to that question while still in office.
The correct answer: Bush is a lousy publis speaker who doesn’t know how to dance around trick questions. And many people actually see that as a virtue. Clinton, for example, didn’t get the nickname “Slick Willie” for nothin’. While some people might admire his deft turn of phrase, others were disgusted by his lawyerly language of evasion.
It’s only the hopeless partisan who can’t understand why both scenarios as I described above exist.
Thanks Xtisme for giving me the political background we already know about
Ok John Mace… so maybe Bush was only skirting reporters questions… but deep down he thinks he is right. If he didn’t he wouldn’t be putting his presidency so heavily on Iraq. Especially since he has been planning to invade Iraq since Day 1. He might not admit its getting FUBAR there either. More things point to Bush thinking he is right than wrong… so my OP assumes much… but not so wrongly as you put it.
Xtisme… you and I know the sheep… I mean the voters wouldn’t accept another Iraq quagmire without some convenient excuse. Still most Bushites were in favor of Iraq… these same Bushites want out of Iraq now. So for them… if they really feel Bush could invade (insert convenient terrorist supporting nation) shouldn’t they be reluctant to vote for Bush ? Bush stating he is not wrong should reinforce for voters that Bush thinks Iraq all hunky dorey.
What was the Iraq situation again?
Look up, look way up…
Nonsense. A fair-handed assessment of the man’s answer.
What, admitting he made mistakes and is human? Kennedy did it. Clinton did it. Even Reagan did it, after a fashion.
Yeah, you’re buying that whole “honest speaker” schtick again, I see. Which explains how Bush went from “We know Saddam Hussein has WMDs” to “We believe Saddam Hussein had plans for a WMD program” in less than a year with nary a peep from you. :rolleyes:
I think it’s only the hopeless apologist who can’t realize he’s knee-deep in cognitive dissonance.
Paging Mr. Pot. Paging Mr. Pot. Mr. Kettle for you on line 2…
-XT
When asked on the spot in a press conference? I don’t think so…
Did I ever say I bought it? I said a lot of people do. My assessment is that he’s a lousy public speaker and not quick on his feet. He knows damn well that he’s made mistakes. He just wasn’t prepared to talk about them in that particular press conference, for whatever reason.
What makes you think "he knows damn well" ? Any indications or "changes of course" ? I only hear "stay the course". At best he feels his political position is precarious because of Iraq or that he can give more money to homeland security IMHO.
So has Bush given up his rhetoric of changing the face of the Middle East ?Off the top of my head steel tarrifs jumps out at me as one of those reversals. In addition, I think it has dawned on Mr Bush by now that there were no WMD as he and his administration previously thought. So ya…I think its reasonable to say that Bush knows he’s made mistakes. Now that we are hip deep in the shit of Iraq though, staying the course is probably our only real option for the time being. What you have to understand is, Bush (or Clinton, or any other president) might SAY something, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he BELIEVES it. He’s a freaking politician!
This whole thing is a bit ridiculous. Bush gets up in a press conference and is asked a question pretty much out of the blue (i.e. it wasn’t on his list of prepared questions…he even made that point (stupidly)) on what he thinks he fucked up on while he’s been president. He fumbles about, going blank for several seconds and then stumbles his way out of the question eventually without actually saying anything of substance…and this is some kind of stunning revelation? Bush isn’t very good at talking smoothly off the cuff. He’s not smooth or polished in that way. As John Mace said earlier, some folks actually think of this as a good thing (because he doen’t SOUND like a slick politician). But I challenge anyone to find a similar thing happening to any president where they actually said anything of substance at all…i.e. asked point blank at a news conference (out of the blue) what mistakes they made while president, and said president actually listed all the mistakes they think they made. Think about it guys…what president WOULD list out all the mistakes they think they made? :rolleyes:
I can’t think of any ‘excuse’ that would fly atm RM. Not with the present mood of the country. And this doesnt’ even take into account Congress which would authorize another war when pigs fly. Even if the Administration came up with conclusive proof of another country attacking us they would be hard pressed to get another war. In addition, the military realities are that we are strapped for ground forces atm…we simply don’t HAVE the force to invade and occupy a Syria or Iran now, nor are we likely to have said force for years to come. Certainly not until Iraq is settled one way or the other and we are able to pull out or at least reduce our forces to minimal levels like in South Korea. And THATS not going to happen any time soon. This is one of the major problems I have with the whole Iraq thing…it was a total waste and it fucks us if we NEED those troops for something real in the future.
As to the last thing, about Bush stating he is not wrong, I didn’t get that from his conference and that stupid question, and I watched the thing live (ok, so I’m a masocist). What he SAID was he couldn’t think of anything right then that he had done wrong, but that he was pretty sure that he had made mistakes and if he had more time to think about it (read, if his staff had time to sift through everything he’d done and could come up with some slick and politically neutral things he could list out without doing him any harm with regurads to his re-election) then he could probably come up with some. Reguardless, the American people don’t blindly follow ANY politician’s bullshit…they can make their own decisions and determiniations on what Bush did or didn’t fuck up on. And they will…in November.
-XT (Sr)
He was forced to reverse course on the steel tariffs or see Jeb's Florida suffering sanctions. So not to sure it was a "mistake" in his mind. He still mentions WMDs recently as if it were still a possibility. (They're hiding something phrase...).
Iraq certainly is a troop trap. I can't see a US troops clearing out except to leave a civil war behind... or in 5 years away at best.
Yep I watched the interview live too... the better to answer to SMDB threads actually. Horrible thing to watch... most Brazilians change channels when Bush comes on screen. They can't bear to see him.
As for the American people... there is a certain mythos and respect for the position of "president". So I'm not as positive as you are about them not following blindly. Bush only has to trick some of the people... just enough to swing the vote. I do hope they overcome and give the Oval Office something more dignified.
Whats with the XT (Sr) ? Daddy is using your account ? 
Naw, my oldest son (Xavior Jr :)) and even my wife occationally hijack my account when I’m out of town on business and I’ve had a few confused people complain about it (or scratch their head in puzzlement when its my wife, who has fairly radically different views on things than I do). So, I told my son to sign it Jr, I sign it Sr and my wife does whatever the hell she wants to do.
Snort. I doubt whether thats the case. Remember, a lot of the mileage Bush got was in the wake of 9/11 when the American people were shocked, stunned…and frankly pretty pissed off…all at the same time. Besides, it would be Congress Bush would have to ‘trick’ and I doubt whether they would go for anything that wasn’t 100% certain. Bush used up everything he had in Iraq, and even if he gets re-elected (something I think is marginal at this point) he won’t be able to do anything remotely similar again. Not only that, but Iraq was pretty much a special circumstance that really doesn’t exist anywhere else…with the possible exception being North Korea, and I seriously doubt Bush would be interested in sticking America’s head into THAT hornets nest any time soon. Even assuming we have the force TOO stick our head into something like that, which we don’t.
Well, my wife is a Bush fan (no accounting for taste) so I ended up watching the whole thing with her. Personally I found the experience fairly painful. He did make some good points, and he did convey his conviction that HE believes in what he’s doing, but most of his answers had me rolling my eyes (out of sight of my wife of course).
Well, if you think that, then you must realize that the US simply doesn’t have the force to do something similar anywhere else. Not for years and years to come. Not only are our troops tied down, but a lot of our hardware too. In addition, we used up a hell of a lot of smart weapons whos stockpiles will have to be rebuilt. And, it cost a HELL of a lot of money too (something aproaching 100 billion dollars if I remember right…thats REAL money). American simply doesn’t have the means to go off on another adventure if Bush manages to squeek by and get re-elected…reguardless of what excuses Bush et al uses to make their case.
-XT (The Original :))
Thanks Xtisme Sr… do hope your wife sees the light eventually.
I thought the cost of the bombs and other ordinance was included in war estimates. There is a running joke here about Americans going to war everytime the due dates for bombs and tomahawks are near.... so they basically were going to scrap most of them anyway... and the US gets some convenient war going in order to use them.
I would like to have your optimism about Bush's demise... and the wisdom of the American people. With so many scandals and inquiries going on... Bush somehow manages to stay ahead of Kerry. Anywhere else in the 1st World and Bush would have been plummeting in the polls, which unfortunately reinforces the stereotypes about americans... if Bush does get a new term who will take americans seriously ?
Anyone who praises Sharon during a palestinian leader assassination campaign cannot be serving the best interests of the US.No chance…she loves the guy. No idea why either, as she voted for Clinton when HE was president.
I go back and forth on this. Sometimes I can’t believe that there is any way in hell Bush can win. Other times it looks too close to call. The problem is the stupid 'Crats are running Kerry…who is pretty much a cold fish. I don’t see many people very excited about him. Most folks I know who are considering voting for him are basically voting AGAINST GW. There is appathy all around with a definite ‘none of the above’ syndrome…at least among my friends and folks I know. I think if a real good and strong third party candadate had of emerged this time he would have seriously given both parties a run for their money.
Anyway, I guess well see come November. Reguardless, as per your OP, I don’t see the US going to war again in the next term no matter who ultimately wins. We will be stuck in Iraq for the indefinite future, bleeding slowly white…
-XT
Rashak Mani - Well, first of all, Bush has to finish in Iraq before he can think about repeating it anywhere. If Iraq descends into ethnic chaos after June 30 or an anti-American leader gets elected, it’s doubtful that he’ll even get any kind of support for another invasion.
Man, I really feel for our good folks in the armed forces right now. They’re stretched to the breaking point as it is.