Don’t you know? If the killing isn’t formalized into a death penalty system, random innocent people near you will spontaneously explode.
No, there’s nothing at all wrong with striving for governmental change, based on compassion – the concept of bodhicitta is well-ingrained.
But there’s a world of difference between constructive steps towards change, and self-righteous hand-wringing or flying off the handle whenever any certain topic is broached. The emotional “desire” for justice can cloud the mind, and frankly serves little purpose except stroking one’s ego, though not necessarily your own. And FYI, ranting and raving on a message board about the world’s cruel injustices is about as ineffectual as you can get, if change is what you truly desire – just so you know.
I see. So expressing your views on a message board is unlikely to allow you to achieve release from the cycle of sorrow. Got it.
Now, I wonder if you could explain how that connects with the idea that it is well-advised to go ahead and execute people who might be innocent because you imagine that they would prefer to be killed rather than imprisoned.
Now that’s the first smart thing you’ve said so far. Well done, grasshopper.
On the other hand, you have failed to be anything but an asshole. But I’m still trying to grasp your chain of logic.
Such an optimistic boy. pinches cheeks
If that’s truly the case, then wouldn’t life in prison be a much worse punishment for those who commit such heinous crimes? :dubious:
That sounds kinda cool, actually. Kinda like spontaneous human combustion. 
I have no reason to expect you fine people will accept this, but I have participated in an execution.
The people who conduct them are very solemn about what they do, so please do not think my statements reflect on them and I ask you to not judge them harshly.
One of my jobs was to be on the resistance intervention team.
Our job was to try and get the man to go to his death with dignity and not fight us. But, if he did, it was my job to ensure it went smoothly.
It was a rough job. Don’t get me wrong, some of these men were horrible people and i understood the anger people had towards them.
I felt my duty was to execute the laws of the state I was in and make sure it occurred within guidelines provided. It was not my place to question the judicial process, only execute it.
There are many men on death row who deserve to die. Most of them are despicable human beings. Some may be innocent.
The anti-death penalty groups are actively involved in coaching inmates on methods to make the lethal injection process harder. I have sincere sorrow for them, because in their crusade, they have helped create these horrific scenarios.
After multiple executions I have relieved myself of the responsibility by requesting exemption. In part, because I found it hard to kill another person when I was not facing imminent danger, even when I was on the “right” side of the law.
But, more importantly, I have become a person who opposes the death penalty, for reasons not very common.
For those of you who have never worked on death row, you may not understand.
I have always treated them as I treat any inmate, with dignity and respect deserving of a human being. On death row though, I have had the responsibility of sitting the “death watch”, of speaking to them in their last moments and leading them to the table where they meet their end. These are pretty unique moments.
Regardless of your politics, the death penalty must end. There are numerous reasons for this.
Yes, it is more expensive, but don’t let anyone fool you, it is only more expensive because of the attention given to those on death row, the legal protections (which are good) and the measures we must take to house them in the environment demanded.
I assure you, an 80 year old inmate dying of cancer will cost more than the DP. It is a political tool people use to tell you it is more expensive than life in prison because they use the inflated legal costs and juxtapose them to the standard cost of incarceration, forgetting the end of life costs.
They conveniently forget that older inmates need advanced level care and then nursing level care, when they are held to the end of their time.
But honestly, that is not the true reason to re-examine the DP. When it is broken down, in my humble opinion, it comes down to a few factors:
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It is possible we could execute an innocent, and let me tell you, there was a man once i thought might be innocent and it haunts me to this day,
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It is cruel and unusual to require state employees to execute another person when there are these questions.
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It is cruel and unusual to require state employees to execute someone… period. Any man or woman who goes away from an execution with a completely clear conscience is not someone I want to be around. The vast majority of the men and women who served on execution teams with me will attest to this in private.
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These men, as I described previously as pretty despicable, are given rock star status by their supporters. They actually see themselves as a human rights hero. They, in their minds, and in the minds of many others, are the victims and this is a sad reality. People who are horrible individuals get the right to be declared a hero because of the DP. That, in my opinion is wrong.
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The DP, and the crusade against it, inspires good people to do odd things. I have seen attorneys sneak in contraband to an inmate, threatening their law license. I have heard them coach inmates on ways to make the process more cruel to further their agenda of stopping the DP. Inmates will not drink for 3 days prior to execution at the behest of their lawyers, so a vein cannot be found. The cruel result is, in some part, coached by anti-DP advocates who are willing to allow someone to suffer to advance their goals.
I, thankfully, will never have to participate in another execution. My career has suffered for it as I have decided I am no longer willing to execute a person for the people of a state. They could not fire me, technically, for this, but they could, and did, put me in the career dead end.
So, I ask people to oppose the death penalty for a multitude of reasons. If you think it is immoral or unethical in civil society… ok. But, if you support it because you think it is just desserts, I ask you, are you willing to allow other, law abiding citizens, to suffer for your sense of vengeance?
I would never place my plight on the same level of a man losing his life, but the difference is, some men have done something to result in the death sentence. I, and other state employees, have done nothing and we have been punished as well.
Then why do so many prisoners continue to seek stays of execution from the judicial and executive branches after their appeals have failed?
I’m prepared to extend the courtesy of taking you at your word, though your description suggests that if execution is going to occur, there’s a need for professional executioners to carry it out, rather than prison guards.
This. I’m totally not losing any sleep over here.
Lucky Mike, thank you for your unique insights.
I’d like to hear more about the anti-death penalty groups coaching inmates to make the lethal injection process harder. Do you have more info or perhaps even links with more info about it?
No, I don’t, but as others have suggested here, if you skip past the case of Cameron Todd Willingham, you are not doing yourself any favors here. Convicted of setting the fire in which his three young children died, the alleged evidence of the arson investigators on which he was convicted and executed has repeatedly been found to be bullshit.
Lucky Mike: Nice post.
hijack: That distinction is irrelevant in a barroom context. That distinction is relevant in an academic one. Most posters here want to dwell somewhere in between those two points. (Personally, I like to accept the full range.) I’m just making an observation.
I read in the Economist once that most countries that have abolished the death penalty did so in the face of popular support for the practice. Europe possesses a less populist populist political system than the US. Most publics tend to support the death penalty when and where it exists.
Most publics also don’t live in a country capable of the sort of power projection the US has. Then again, I’d argue that US intervention is an elite-driven process. Kevin Drum elucidates: With the benefit of my vast experience reading the mood of the American public, I’d like to explain what’s going on. This should save our nation’s pundits millions of windy words trying to invent sophisticated explanations that make them look smart. Here it is:
[INDENT] The American public really likes short, decisive wars that the United States wins conclusively. A couple of weeks is good. A month or two is pretty much the outside limit.
That’s it! Now you understand foreign policy. Grenada: good! Panama: good! Gulf War: not bad! Kosovo: pushing it. Iraq: horrible. Syria and other places where we fail to intervene at all: massive cognitive dissonance. War is bad! But we want to kick the bad guys in the butt! Does not compute! President is failing…failing…failing… [/INDENT]
MfM: Anyway, while US politics are on the extreme end of the OECD, some of the differences are due to historical peculiarities. A Short Primer on American Preferences in Foreign Policy – Mother Jones
Not to speak for buddha_david, but I think he is correct that participation on message boards aren’t an especially effective form of activism. Nor are they an expression of compassion, for related reasons. Mostly ego I say, sadly.
There are all kinds involved. Of course, since the professional medical associations forbid the involvement of doctors, nurse practitioners, etc… many times it is LPN’s, EMT trained corrections officers and then administrators who oversee and supervise the process. I was in the administrative/supervision role.
I regret I cannot afford any particular citations which would have verifiable credibility. I just have seen it and heard inmates discuss themselves. I fully understand how this will receive the scrutiny it should because it is anecdotal.
Not drinking water to dehydrate the body is one of the ones I have hard. It makes finding a stable vein more difficult.
I can’t seem to find discussion about this on the web, with or without verifiable credibility.
I wouldn’t rule it out for that reason. The total size of the community that would write out such procedures is rather small and half of them (the inmates, rather than the activists) have minimal internet access.
Well, if the job was contracted out to a small group of professionals, say five to ten people, who would bring the necessary equipment and, presumably, the mindset needed for such a job… They’re given the death warrant and a contract and when they’re done, justice is served.
Factually the death penalty is constitutional and IMHO the practice is not per se unconstitutional, though I oppose it as a matter of policy in most US contexts.
If a state botches an execution like Oklahoma just did, that seems either cruel or unusual to me, probably both. IMHO, lethal injection should be struck down and state legislatures forced to come up with something better. It can’t be that hard, though I suspect the process (guillotine, etc) will be less flattering to the advocates.
Disagree? I mean it’s not like most juries had a clear idea of what lethal injection entails in practice.