No spare tire in new cars because of the 'guvmint?

I’m a little skeptical. Are the fuel economy margins on vehicles so razor thin that the weight of even a compact spare would make-or-break economy requirements? That seems rather unlikely to me, but I can be convinced otherwise.

I’ve been driving even longer – more like 40+ years give or take, and I agree. The number of “flats” I’ve had in that time was three that I can recall, maybe four. All except one were slow leaks where I just pumped up the tire with an electric compressor that I now always carry in the car and drove to a service station to get fixed. One was caused by a great big honking nail right in the tire, but it still held pressure for many hours.

The only flat in my entire driving life that really disabled the car was a leak that was fast enough you could actually hear the air rushing out. This occurred when I started to drive home late at night from visiting some friends. That was when I discovered that the spare mount, cleverly located underneath the car, had welded itself to the chassis due to years of corrosion. So, no spare.

The consequence of this was that I pumped up the tire and returned to my friend’s place and spent the night there, discovering in the process that they possessed some excellent scotch. :smiley: In the morning I pumped up the tire once again and drove it to a nearby service station. Too much running-flat had destroyed the tire, as it turned out, but they replaced it and I drove home, and that was the end of the story of my one and only real flat in 40 years.

There are several reasons for a lack of a spare tire, among them
[ul]
[li]many cars have a different sized tire on the front than on the rear, some even have a different offset wheel, so no one wheel would fit both ends.[/li][li]Tires have gotten way more reliable and longer lasting over the last 40 years.[/li][li]Customers are less mechanically inclined than ever before. A fair portion of the driving public (if not a majority) would not or could not change a flat if they had to[/li][li]In auto racing pounds = horsepower. In street cars pounds = gas mileage. In the never ending quest for better gas mileage car makers are looking everywhere for weight reduction.[/li][li]You also are seeing a concern that old tires not be used. I know of tire shops that will refuse to do any repair on any tire over 5-6 years old due to concerns about safety (see the Paul Walker thread for more about this, or go check tirerack.com)[/li][/ul]
As long as we are pulling out stories, my Volvo that got totaled last year, had 152,000 miles on it. In the nine years I owned and drove it, I never had a flat, and the only time the spare came out of the trunk was to either check the air pressure, or look for something that had slipped under it. The car (and spare tire) were built in 2004 so at the time of the accident the spare was 9 years old and due for replacement.
I don’t know how much additional fuel I burned dragging that thing around since 2004, but it is a number >0.
While I would prefer my next car to have a spare, if it is the car I want, I won’t lose any sleep if it doesn’t come with one.

I wonder how they are selling in places like Mexico where flats are more common?

A spare tire is not an especially heavy thing. I guarantee a set of four runflats without a spare is heavier than a set of five regular tires including a spare. The four heavy runflats are unsprung weight and part of your rotational mass, which has a much greater impact on acceleration, braking, handing, and fuel economy than the weight of a spare tire ever will.

It’s like saying “yeah, in the 50’s when gas was cheap you got a keyhole on the passenger side of the car, but now with government regulations you can’t possibly include one because of wind resistance.” Someone who knows nothing about cars, wind resistance, fuel economy, the 50’s, or many other things might say “gosh, this guy sounds smart! I’ll agree with him and sound smart, too!” but that doesn’t make it true.

The spare tire, just like the passenger side lock cylinder, is being omitted because normal people don’t miss them and manufacturers can get away with not including them. If you have a problem with that, you’re not “normal people.” Buy one and mount it on your grill or something.

My BMW with runflats had a flat a few months ago. how annoying. In a moderate size urban area, I had to wait for the dealer to order a new from the big city down the highway. (no spare on hand, and they ONLY sell runflats at BMW now! Mine was a 2008 328xi so it’s not like they had no idea these things would be in demand. By the time I got there at 4PM they’d missed the order deadline, so a day and two halves without a car. Goody!

Looking at the runflats - if I’m out on the highway, and it’s more than 60 miles/100km to the next big city, I’m basically stuck and need a tow. I’ll either (a) take my chances, or (b) buy a spare rim from the junkyard for long trips. Decisions decisions. But once you’ve driven on a flat, the tire is a throwaway, because you don’t know how much is left on that tire.

Plus when you hit a pothole, it feels like you banged the rim. I think I’ll look long and hard about options next car purchase.

I get a flat every 3 to 5 years, I guess. wasn’t a problem with the 2000BMW with the full size replacement tire.

A guy should have a passion. Yours happens to be spare tires. That’s OK.:wink:

The only reason car manufactures are not putting in a spare tyre is: They DON’T have to.

Which basically leads to: It costs LESS and saves them money.

The only interference from the government is, that they do not require a spare in a new car, but not forbidding it.

Nothing to do with weight, mpg or other crap. If the car maker is not required to put a spare in then they don’t and keep the cash.

In Ireland, commercial vehicles are required to carry a full spare tyre – that’s the only reason, why I got a full spare tyre with my Opel Corsa-van. The same private car version does not have a spare anymore, only an inflation kit. At best private cars have an emergency donut tyre, however you can always buy one as an accessory.

Most people never ever figure out, that they don’t have a spare anymore or discover the lack of a spare when they need one.

Personally, I do like my spare tyre and used it multiple times – about 2-4 times a year, because of slow punctures due to nails/screws.

The fleet requirements for MPG are a real thing, and reducing weight is one of the key ways manufacturers achieve those targets. To ignore that is to ignore reality. They scrimp and scrape to cut weight in any way they can. And Rick’s points are all valid so spare tires are an obvious place to attack.

Yes, the manufactures are out to make money. But no, they can’t just leave parts off a car in a competitive marketplace and reap the cash. That’s not how things work.

Other than high-performance cars, how many models or submodels is this true for?

Other than definitely “sporting” models for which owners are willing to put up with the hassle of differently-sized tires, I can’t think of a single model of the last few decades that doesn’t have 4 identical. Even if that’s not optimal from an engineering or performance standpoint, I think an awful lot of buyers would find it a downcheck if their daily driver couldn’t have tire rotation, a single spare or the other minor “advantages.”

[QUOTE=Doughbag]
Personally, I do like my spare tyre and used it multiple times – about 2-4 times a year, because of slow punctures due to nails/screws.
[/QUOTE]

I haven’t had anything but such slow leaks in maybe 20 years. Either I get the tire repaired or I check it frequently and keep it topped up until I can; I have yet to need a spare for the problem. Is air more expensive in Ireland? :slight_smile:

Maybe you’re right. But I’ll bet that the auto company engineers calculated this every which way and concluded that adding runflats and removing the spare had a greater impact on fuel efficiency and performance than using conventional tires and, possibly including a spare. (Some cars, like the Canadian version of my Honda Fit, just include a can of fix-a-flat for use with the conventional tires.)

The car companies will do anything they can to improve fuel efficiency. (Which is why those ads selling some gizmo guaranteed to improve fuel efficiency with a simple gadget are bullshit; if it was that easy, the manufacturer would have done it already.)

I just love all the unsubstantiated opinions that screech “It has nothing to do with gas mileage!”, which fly in the face of numerous cites. Here are some more:

GM’s view:

Another GM example:

When squeezing every tenth of an MPG out of a huge fleet, every pound counts.

I only see a couple claims of that. Thanks for the numbers. So, it’s 0.4 mpg. So fuel economy standards are, then, it seems, that razor-thin where something as negligible as less than half a mile a gallon could make a difference when taken in aggregate, assuming that each car just barely makes the grade.

Well, it’s really all in the subject line and in about any one thread out of five: that it’s more big-gummint nannyism and interference and oppression and control is a good enough answer for most plain folks.

Next complex topic we can blame on gummint?

No, but it’s problematic if you don’t have a compressor at hand. Try pumping up a complete flat tyre with one of those small pumps, it takes a long time.

Changing the spare only takes 10 minutes.

Sometimes, these “slow” punctures are not that slow either.

I’ve never used my spare tire in my car. I did have a flat once in a rental car, which turned out to not have a spare. Caught a ride to a shop and got a new tire. Yeah, it ruined the rest of my day. One afternoon in however many years I’ve been driving.

Shrug. Carrying a spare imposes a small but significant cost (in mileage and trunk space) in return for a small benefit (being somewhat more convenient if you get a flat). For some people it’s worth it, but for many people today, it’s probably not.

The first link says taking out the spare saves 26 pounds. The second link says taking out the spare and using lighter materials saves 128 pounds and 0.4 miles a gallon. Then it also says the spare alone saves 0.4 mpg. So the first link doesn’t have mpg numbers and the second link says two things that can’t both be true.

Hyundai Equus and Genesis sedans both have different sized tires F&R. I would not call either of them a sporting car.
In addition more Mercedes models than you can name including many large sedans. Same for Audi, BMW, and Volvo.

Yup, a “huge” whooping gain of 0.4mpg – now, this is very significant amount in comparison to this.

Funny, how my car’s diesel consumption is 4.3 L per 100km with a spare tyre when I drive it and when my wife drives the car it uses 5.6 L per 100km – also with a spare tyre. Clearly, the spare tyre has a huge amount to do with this.

Whatever the carmaker says to make the customer feel better about their decision to not put in a spare tyre is one thing.

The important factor is, that carmanufatures are NOT required to put a spare in anymore by law, so they don’t and save that money – it has very little to do with fuel efficiency.

My 2 sub woofers and 3 amplifiers weigh way more than the freaking spare tyre.