No sympathy for those Stupid Hatians!

The BBQ Pit
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Nowadays, a government that can be overthrown by armed force of the civilian population is a government that lacks a properly armed, organized and disciplined army, and is therefore not much of a government at all. It doesn’t work on strong, entrenched dictatorships, such as Burma’s. Give the people there guns and you’d just be helping them die.

The Russian people did not overthrow the Communist government by armed force, but by getting the army on their side. It was pretty much the same throughout the Warsaw Pact.

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Same thing for the French Revolution, mostly. And, when it comes to that, that’s also how Rome went from kingdom to republic to empire back to republic. It’s not really “nowadays”, it’s always been that way.
And if tomorrow, a significant portion of the US army wanted to take control, blow up Capitol Hill and whatnot, they could. Guns or no guns in civilian hands.

183

Correction:

They do (finally) have roughly 50% literacy, but only 10% of the population speaks French and the rest speak (and read and write) only Creole which does not permit them to interact with the rest of the world. In addition, the ruling class has ensured that all laws and courts are in French, keeping the majority of the population from participating even in their own political, legal, and economic affairs.

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and

And as we all know, the American main stream media and the liberals always passed up every opportunity to criticize George W. Bush during his eight years in office. The Democrats and the liberals never, ever politicized events like hurricane Katrina as a means of attacking Bush further. :rolleyes:

Regarding “Kyla’s” comments, and ones similar to it:

It’s one thing to feel sympathy for the survivors of the Haitian earthquake, and another to marvel and be horrified at their inability to help their own citizens in its aftermath.

I view it as being practical, not heartless, to wonder how this could have been prevented - not the earthquake, but the ineptness of the people to deal with one.

The American government gave Haiti millions of dollars over the years, and the Haitians have nothing to show for it.

Is it wise to keep sending money to a nation that is this irresponsible and backwards? Or is it just the equivalent of throwing one’s money down a sewer?

Haiti was a troubled nation before the earthquake hit, and will remain so, even after all the millions of dollars of aid pour in from this earthquake fund raising. Five, ten, twenty years from now, I don’t think much will have changed in Haiti.

It’s just a matter of time before another earthquake or hurricane hits Haiti, and once more, other nations will have run in to fix things on their behalf. Therefore, I’m not sure that sending funds to such a nation is the best solution.

If anything, continually sending in money and aid to such a nation seems to be enabling the situation, much like giving ten bucks to an alcoholic bum on the street won’t really help the bum’s situation in the long term.

The guy you pull out of the Haitian earthquake rubble today has no hope for tomorrow. The average life span in Haiti, I’ve read, is 45 years. Most of the population is illiterate, and there is no business or enterprise there.

Another issue I have with the knee-jerk, excessive out-pouring of help and sympathy to these people has to do with their own unwillingness to help themselves and to help one another.

Not even a day or two after the earthquake hit Haiti, I began seeing news articles explaining that looting and robbery was going on, Haitians were forming barricades out of corpses to halt relief aid from getting through, etc.

I saw footage today on the news of one Haitian guy who held a care package from some charity, and immediately, several other Haitian men ran up to him, were beating on him, and trying to steal the package from his arms.

Some articles explained that when a relief truck did manage to show up at one locale, the younger, stronger Haitians were pushing the young, the weak, or older ones out of the way.

Here are a few articles which mention all this:
Haiti Earthquake: Looting and Gun Fights Break Out

Violence Stalls Aid to Haiti

Cops Battling Surging Violence [in Haiti] Plead For Help

Their nation seems beyond all hope and repair, and no amount of aid or funding will help. Their problem runs deeper than calamity brought on by earthquake.

Even after all the supplies and financial aid are poured into Haiti this month, five years from now, they will not be better off. They’ll look and be the same as ever.

The American government (and private citizens) have been sending millions of dollars in aid to nations in Africa for decades now, and Africa is still in bad shape. I don’t think Haiti will fare differently.

Someone above mentioned Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson.

I think Limbaugh’s only, or main, point is that Obama mentioned some months ago wanting to tax charitable donations.

So for every check you write to help Haiti earthquake victims, Obama would want you to pay tax on it.

Taxing donations would probably discourage a lot of people from giving to charity, which is what Obama wants; he wants people to depend on government for handouts, rather than on private entities.

As for Robertson, I don’t really care for the guy, but I do believe he’s gotten a bad wrap in this situation and has been treated unfairly. If you actually read transcripts of what Robertson said, people have read things into his comments that simply were not there. To see what I mean, please see this page:

In Defense of Pat Robertson

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Ah. Well, let’s take a look, shall we? I also have trouble believing that anyone would say something so idiotic. Surely he was badly misquoted.

So, God didn’t cause the earthquake; He merely cursed them with “grinding poverty” because of a (fictitious) pact with the devil (also fictitious). This is your “defense”?

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It’s like this, Grouchy. In an integrated international free market system, with the whole world as a trading environment, Haiti is, to coin a phrase, fucked.

They have nothing but dirt, and the dirt isn’t very good. They have nothing to sell the world, no resources to exploit but a vast untapped pool of labor, made up of people uneducated, malnourished and now, homeless.

Using the word “we” in the broadest possible sense, of “we” as in humanity, rather than “we” being the USA but including the USA…

We help them, or they die. Its that simple. And if we help them we will be deluding ourselves to expect any return on the investment. If we do this thing, and I very much urge that we do, it will be simply because they are people.

I am not worried that God will turn His face from America if we don’t help these people, I have serious doubts about the whole concept of national damnation. Nonetheless, I’d much prefer that we didn’t deserve it. That would be nice.

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Yep, when everybody packs heat, it always results in a wonderful society. Want proof? Just look at Yemen, Somalia, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

188

You forgot America.

189

…and our Third World-esque intentional homicide rate.

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In principle there is a legitimate question not especially related to the Haiti situation: when is it fair to be indifferent to the suffering of a group of people when the suffering is largely self-inflicted due to cultural norms, political choices, incompetence or downright stupidity and laziness.

191

At last, an easy one! Never.

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Perhaps you should actually find out what Limbaugh’s point was before sharing your thoughts on it.

Obama proposed to cap the amount of charitable donations that can be deducted from taxable income of people making $250,000 and over at 28% - the same amount which could be deducted under the Reagan tax plan. Deductions are already capped at 7%. In other words, for the average person writing a $50 check to Haiti, nothing is going to happen.

Rush lied and claimed Obama wanted to remove the deduction completely.

In any case, that was hardly “his only or main point”. He claimed that Obama wanted to use earthquake relief to shore up his image among the “light-skinned and dark-skinned black communities”.

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You are joking, right? Robertson cited an event which didn’t actually happen and would be meaningless if it had as the cause for Haitians’ ongoing pain and suffering. Immediately after a catastrophic disaster there.

Robertson failed not only on the “accuracy” front, but also on the “tact” and “not being a douchebag fronts”. He should have gotten a worse rap, quite frankly.

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Find such a place and we’ll consider the situation.

If you believe that to be true of Haiti, you are displaying a stupefying level of ignorance.
(Well, I guess I could note that I find little sympathy for the drug ills that plague the movie industry; that might be close.)

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Haiti is whats left when corporations find a location that has resources they want. They in concert with the military strip the land of everything they want ,with no deference paid to the welfare of the people . It is an old story.
Florida has no state income tax. They have hurricanes. When they hit the whole US has to save them from the disaster. Yet if they had a small income tax and created a disaster fund, the rest of the US would not have to bail them out so often.
This is not Robertsons first foot in mouth incident. The man does not show any christianity in his pronouncements. He is far from Christs teachings.

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We have a state sales tax which generates the same amount of revenue as an income tax. It’s regressive, but our bills are paid.

Florida is a net contributor in terms of federal funding received per dollar of taxes paid, and has been since 2001.

Anyway, you live in Michigan. Who the hell are you to complain about states being bailed out?

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Generations of Michiganders shifting money to the general funds gives us credence.

198

Oh, right.

Whatever, man. We’ve got much nicer beaches.

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The Tax Foundation puts Florida at $0.97 received per dollar sent to Washington vs. Michigan’s $0.92. Both are donor states.

The beaches of Lake Michigan are much nicer than any that Florida has to offer.

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Right. Especially in February.