No Time to Die - James Bond [SPOILERS INCLUDED]

Cafe Society
1

It’s the Monday after the release and I find no thread. Somehow I believe that my searching fu is just bad, or maybe we just don’t have that many Bond fans here. If it is the former, please just merge this with the existing thread.

Okay…

Good finale for Daniel Craig as Bond. Craig is starting to show his age (currently 53, but was probably 51-52 when filmed). I can fully see why he wanted to move away from the role.

Storyline continues the arc from the past few Bond movies with Blofeld and Madeline Swann in place.

We learn that James and Madeline have a daughter together and the new villain (Safin) shares a past with Swann.

BIG SPOILER - Bond saves the world at the end of the movie…but dies doing so.

It is clear that he dies as missiles land in his location. We see his body engulfed in the ensuing explosion, and MI6 toasts to his death back at the HQ. Movie ends, credits roll.

At the end of the credits, just like in every James Bond film since Diamonds Are Forever, the screen says - - “James Bond Will Return”, not 007, but James Bond

So either, he didn’t die, which seems implausible to the storyline of the movie…

…or the Broccili’s plan to introduce a new actor to play James Bond and we ignore all of the plot lines of the Daniel Craig era, and maybe there has been no continuity when a new actor takes over as Bond.

…or maybe “James Bond” is a codename that is assigned to particular 00’s. But that would contradict the storyline within Skyfall.

Whatever it is, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

2

That’s how I’ve understood all the reporting about the end of this era of Bond. The next James Bond film will be some kind of reboot. Similar to how they’ve transitioned from one actor to the next in the past, excepting that until the Craig version of Bond, they never really made an effort to tell an ongoing story, nor have they killed the character.

3

I saw it last weekend and thought it was quite a weak entry. I put my thoughts in another thread but they are relevant here

Deeply, meh I’m afraid. Nowhere near as good as “Skyfall” or “Casino Royale”

It looked quite nice and the opening sequence and “Paloma” were highpoints but there weren’t that many.
The plot was bonkers (more so than usual), somewhat muddled and couldn’t sustain the length of the film. The 007 replacement wasn’t convincing, the theme tune was a dismal dirge (I cannot remember any of it) and the villain was utterly forgettable, made worse by comparison to Christoph Waltz who had a good chunk of screen time and I was hoping for more.
Worst of all was the ending? I won’t spoiler it but really ?
There seems to have been a decision taken that Bond should no longer be Bond and some sort of redemptive and emotional arc is needed, well, OK if that’s what you want to do with it but if that’s the path they are taking it doesn’t really interest me.

I prefer for Bond to kill bad guys, spar with the villain, foil a crazy plan, shag beautiful women and escape impossible situations. Solid escapist nonsense, rather than angsty bollocks. NTTD was a solid enough action film but it didn’t feel like a Bond Film.

4

Just saw the movie over the weekend, and really liked it. I knew the spoiler about the ending from here and elsewhere; it didn’t spoil the movie, and it fit the story well.

Some random thoughts:

The Cuban segment seemed like a brief callback to the less-serious Bond of prior decades, not that there’s been no humor in the Craig movies. Eyeballs (especially Blofeld addressing his birthday party remotely by eyeball & nobody at MI6 realizing he was taking meetings when he was talking to himself in his cell), “Spectre bunga-bunga,” Ana DeArmas’s character, and Bond’s escape with the scientist from 007 and the Cuban police, were comic and at points slapstick.

How did Safin not realize Bond was about to pull something when he abjectly kowtowed in (false) apology?! He didn’t demand or even ask Bond to do so, it was totally “over the top,” and I was sure from the first moment that Bond was only taking that stance to draw a weapon or gadget, which of course he did.

How the hell did M not lose his job considering how much he royally screwed up by resting so much of his already ethically problematic* Heracles plan on a dodgy turncoat scientist? He kept putting off calling the Prime Minister until it was absolutely necessary at least in part because he knew he’d get into some serious shit for his screwup, which oddly enough he didn’t (at least on-screen). He also had to keep putting off the Japanese and Russians at a key moment, which meant putting off firing on the island until almost the last minute, at least partially because he couldn’t admit the full depth of the situation. To be fair, Bond rightfully didn’t want him to mention Heracles so that nobody else knew it existed. But IMHO M could’ve said something more if he personally had nothing to hide. When he said “let’s get back to work” after toasting Bond near the end of the movie, I was thinking “maybe not you” :roll_eyes: but again he suffered no consequences on-screen.

Speaking of Heracles, it bears a considerable resemblance to Project Insight from the Marvel movies. :face_with_raised_eyebrow: The head of a spy agency secretly develops a weapon to very selectively and remotely kill only the desired targets, irresistibly like a bolt from the blue and essentially without collateral damage. However, the biggest enemy and target of that spy agency steals the secret weapon to hijack it for its own purposes, and instead it will be used to impose a dictatorship by rapidly, remotely, and irresistibly decapitating any resistance.

*Not just the whole extrajudicial playing-God thing, as that’s inherent in the 00 business, but (1) it can’t be recalled once targeted, as the nanobots will be out in the world essentially forever, (2) it’s utterly unstoppable if it falls into the wrong hands, and pure chaos if it falls into more than one set of wrong hands, and (3) it killed family members of the target as well as the target him/herself. (2) is sorta one of the points of the movie; the fact that M couldn’t let the Russians or Japanese know about it illustrates that the prospect of someone – actually, pretty much anyone – else having Heracles is infinitely larger a problem than the ability to kill reliably and remotely is worth.

5

I thought the movie was the best Daniel Craig one. Actiony without being too stupid. But…

nanobots? Seriously? They’re more science fiction than warp drive. Self-replicating technology that can be programed to test and match DNA? Come on! Not to mention that such a technology has more application than just killing people. You have a cancer cure, in your hands! But, it’s always easier to destroy than build.

Not to mention, “growing” them? And they aren’t killed my magik EMP watches? They should be. (Speaking of, where DO they get their power? teeny tiny batteries, that never need recharging?)

That’s OK, Bond’s earwig wasn’t blown into his brain when the EMP went off. Must be super hardened, like the Aston Martin.

The biggest problem for me was I forgot who Madeline was. I spent the first third of the movie trying to figure out why I should care about her. Once I got home and reread the summation of Spectre, I’m like, OK the first part makes much more sense!

One thing about these modern Bonds - in the old days, Bond battled world-threatening villains. Now he battles his own angst.

6

I don’t think that gadget was an EMP. It would have shut off Cyclops’s eye, not made it overheat or explode. Maybe it was a mini CAT scan magnet.

The missiles that hit the island? Now THERE’s an EMP to shut down all the nanotechnology there, including what’s in Bond!

Of course there’s another James Bond movie coming. I hope it’s a hard reboot set in the era the books were written in. If it’s not, well… Who could fake his high profile death more convincingly than James Bond?

7

Just saw it last night. Can anybody tell me what the villain’s evil scheme actually was? He was mass producing the nanobots so he could deliver them around the world to kill who, exactly?

And why was he bothering to mass produce them? If the nanobots pass from person to person, they’re self-replicating. Once you cook up a batch, just expose one person, and send that person travelling around the world. Eventually they’ll come into contact with the person they’re tailored for.

There are dozens of technicians working in the Big Bad’s factory. When the shooting starts, they all run, but where do they go? It’s an island; don’t see any boats leave, everyone just vanishes.

8

The scheme was unclear beyond (1) eliminating Spectre, which was already accomplished, and (2) killing a lot of people in the several thousands to a few million range, but particular targets rather than whole cities or nations (despite the rogue scientist’s fatal snark).

Safin monologued to Bond that he wants to remake the world to his plan and that people want to be dictated to rather than run their own lives. That implies an Operation Insight/Hydra-style strike against people who would stand in the way of his plan, the details of which Safin didn’t reveal to Bond. But M & co. say buyers are coming to the island, which implies Safin’s merely selling Heracles to the highest bidder(s). Some combination of his own plan and purely mercenary sales? We’ll never know. :slightly_smiling_face:

As to why so many nanobots, Safin’s got lots and lots of targets. Q never said how many, but his screen filled with multiple lists of targets when he accessed the recovered DNA targeting data. I’m presuming it’s one batch or “strain” of nanobots per target.

9

If you haven’t seen it yet, I read an article that brought viewers up to date, but then I figured I’d just watch Spectre first.

Glad I did, it got me in the mood for a spy movie, and for some scenery-chewing by Danny and Christophe.

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Now that would be great! I just listened to some of the early Bond books, and they have a good sense of locale, like Paris or Jamaica in the 50s.

That would be fun!

10

Did they say that buyers were coming to the island, or just transport ships? I thought it was the latter. (Where do supervillains get all these people to work for them?) And if the ships are 20 minutes away from the island, shouldn’t their cargo already be packed in crates waiting on the pier? Looked like all the workers were still stirring the brew in that long wading pool; I think it had to simmer a little longer.

And now that I think about it, I’m not sure why Bond put Madeleine on the train at the beginning. I thought he just wanted to get her to safety while the bad guys were chasing him, but then he says she’ll never see him again and the chase is over.

It was good to see a helicopter. I checked once, and I think there were only three Bond films that don’t have a helicopter in them, somewhere.

11

Not only that, but why were there so many guarding the room where the (unused) silo door* controls were? They only reason in-story they were guarding it was because Bond needed to get there. But as far as anyone in henchdom would know, there was no reason to go there! They didn’t know missiles were coming.

I used to roll my eyes at the sheer number of nameless henchdrones the bad guys would keep on their payroll. And where do they find them? And more importantly, why are they so bad at their job? Bond et al just wade through them, like they’re playing a FPS game.

But I figured out this movie that that actually makes sense, storytelling-wise. People like Safin hire ex-military types, trump lovers in a world gone “woke”, who are looking to kill the right people, for money. They have the right attitude, but they may not actually be good at what they do. Buncha lazy layabouts, “chair force”, “gravy seals”, lying on their resumes. Maybe never fired a shot the entire time they were in, let alone faced a competent opponent. Of course a trained operator can beat them. Waste of money to even hire them. Sure, they could stop me, but I’m not the type of person that would be trying to break in. I always wonder what they think as they die? “Was it worth it?”

*They didn’t have missiles that would necessitate silo doors in WWII. The writers don’t expect you to notice these things. Maybe they don’t even know it themselves.

12

I’m not sure what Safin’s long term plan was. Killing Spectre was actually a good day’s work in itself. He should be proud.

Beyond that, i think he got “mission creep”. Although it was never said, it did appear he was going for the “Thanos Plan”. Kill enough people until those that are left do what you want them to. Hugo Drax, but with a heart. He wasn’t going to kill everyone. Just enough.

Plot question: So, Bloefeld set the bomb in Vesper’s tomb. OK, fine. (He could have done a better job, but still…) So why were Safin’s people there? Watching the movie in real time, sure, a bunch of people are trying to kill Bond. Just another day. But, why were they there? Were they trying to get Madeline, so she could infect Bloefeld? OK, but then why shoot at her? He early death would be a hindrance to their long term plan.

13

That’s exactly what I thought of as I was watching that scene. It seemed to me to play out exactly like an FPS game. Not only that, but at least the second run through the level. There were at least a couple of points where Bond seemed to be aiming at the henchmen before they popped out, as if he knew where they were coming from. I seriously think that scene’s choreography was inspired by FPS level design - and might well have been designed by an FPS designer.

I may very well be misremembering, but I thought the bunker was a Cold War-era relic, which was abandoned when the USSR collapsed?

14

I’ve only watched once, but I thought they said “WWII submarine base”. It’ll be something I listen for next time. If it was cold war, I’ll retract my objection. :slight_smile:

Like I swear Q said “EMP” in describing Bond’s watch. The dialog is so fast when they don’t want you to start thinking about what they’re talking about!

15

They said it was an old submarine base, (I don’t remember if they said WWII or not), but Q also said that the machinery for opening the missile doors was 1950’s Soviet technology.

As for Safin’s motives, I pretty much assumed he was of the “Some people like to watch the world burn” type. Once he took out Spectre, he just wanted to create more chaos because he could.

Safin’s people weren’t at the tomb bombing, just Spectre. The guy with the bionic eye was originally Spectre, but transferred his loyalty to Safin after Spectre was wiped out. I think Madeleine even mentioned that when he was trying to get her to drink the tea.

16

Ah!

You just can’t get good help these days.

17

The whole point of the Heracles weapon was that it could target specific people, families, or groups. If Safin just wanted to cause mayhem, there are easier ways to do it than stealing a super high-tech weapon and having to collect DNA samples from all the people he wants to wipe out.

18

In my headcanon, Madeline is just going about her day like, 3 years later and suddenly some random grocery clerk drops dead in front of her and they later figure out that he’s like, the grand nephew of Blofeld.

19

Just saw it and kind of loved most of it. I’ll repost my thoughts from the general movies thread:

No Time To Die

Wow, I kind of loved this movie. I’m so glad Daniel Craig got a great send-off. I will say the opening 45 minutes or so was only OK, but once we got things really moving…it was excellent. Daniel Craig is the best Bond and he had a lot of great opportunities to be awesome in this movie.

I’d rank Daniel Craig’s movies like this:

  1. Casino Royale
  2. No Time To Die
  3. Quantum of Solace <–Uh, I like this movie
  4. Skyfall
  5. Spectre <–his only real misfire of a movie

Yeah, I’d recommend this one quite a bit, though. It was thrilling and a great sendoff. I’m relieved in a way.

20

James Bond will return. It will be a different actor, but it will be him. Not a different 007, not a reboot. Are you kidding me? This isn’t a comic book movie! You don’t get to reboot James Bond. Though conceivably they could do a “James Bond: the Early Years” thing, I hope they don’t.

No, he survived the ending, they’ll explain it, it will be fairly unconvincing because anyone else would have been blasted to atoms. Maybe he ducked behind a rock at the last second. But James Bond will return.