From the beginning the MTA wanted new members to pay a higher percentage of their salary towards pensions – this was not a surprise. The last minute change was the MTA’s making concessions on every other front (larger raise, no raise in retirement age for new members, no contribution towards health coverage for new members, extra paid holiday), but adding a demand that new members pay 6% of their salary towards pensions, instead of the 2% they currently pay, and the 3% the MTA originally proposed.
Yes, they should have taken steps such as these. Not that the MTA’s budget is some tightly kept secret – it’s a government agency, go to the library and bring a calculator. Granted, there has been some acounting malfeasance in the past, but that the issue exists and is serious is not being questioned by anyone, including the union.
Sure, that’s possible. But, in that case, what incentive would the TWU have to address the issue later if they’re already getting everything they want without any givebacks? And what makes you think they’d even accept the current proposal without the pension change? Last I heard, the union hadn’t budged from its demand of retirement at 50 and a 24% raise over three years.
The MTA is projecting huge, escalating deficits in the coming years. Giving out large raises and getting nothing in return is not an option.
And I don’t see why the TWU would not be amenable to staying at work pending the resolution of contract negotiations.
Yes, in that the bad blood between the TWU and the MTA is part of the reason for the strike, and that MTA failed to develop better relations with the union. However, in light of the current salary and benefits of TWU workers, the MTA’s reasonable contract offer, the impending budget crisis (which is not as much in doubt as you imply), and the circumatances surrounding the strike (such as it’s illegality and its serious effects on the city’s well-being), their responsibility pales in comparison to that of the union.
I remember Mike Quill as having a thick Irish brogue, and consistently called Lindsay…LINSLEY. He kept it up after being corrected just to break balls.
Point of info first: the TWU is an industrial union (Congress of Industrial Organizations, CIO), not a trade union (American Federation of Labor, AFL). Which means that everyone working for NYC transit is under the union, as opposed to the Long Island Railroad, for instance, which is organized by trades.
Now, on to the meat of the matter:
Kalikow, the head of the MTA, you know, the BIG guy, didn’t even show up at the negotiations until Thursday, less than 24 hours before the contract expired.
That’s numero uno.
Dos, they didn’t strike all the way right away; they instead started with the novel tactic of a limited strike on a few outer borough lines that are still private, and therefore not subject to the Taylor Law. Kind of like moving a knight instead of a queen in a chess game, assuming you have that choice. Which, in this case, they did.
Tres, the fact that the two sides are still so far apart is a sign that no really serious negotiations took place; it’s a commonplace for the union to demand crazy shit and for the management to come back with a package that basically says, “Be happy you have a job.” Far as I can tell, not a lot of movement from the maximalist position of the two sides has occurred so far.
Quatre, to mix Romance languages, the limited strike was announced on Friday morning at 7 AM. The actual all-out strike started at 3 AM on Tuesday night. That would be, um, I don’t know, somewhere north of ninety hours later. Such radicals. And of course the negotiations were taking place for a long time before Friday morning.
So, that shows that the union was willing to bend in that they didn’t strike right away, and in that Toussaint was there at the negotiations well before Kalikow showed up.
What the MTA and Pataki (Gov of NY and therefore having some power over the MTA, which is a state agency) - less so Bloomberg, both because he’s actually powerless in this situation and because he rightly observed that throwing the leadership in jail would be counterproductive - are engaged in is sewer-level demagoguery. It works because the average American worker is so cowed that he actually - all over this thread I’ve seen it - yells at the workers for having a better deal than he does, instead of thinking “Hey, how can I get that deal from my boss?”
But that would take actual courage and the intelligence to know one’s own actual and true economic self-interest. Better to yell at the workers getting docked two days for every day they stand out there; they have no power over you, and so they make the perfect whipping boys for your misguided frustration.
And, yes, the union did come down on their salary demands, the MTA did go up on their offer, so given this progress the union should have upped the ante more slowly - perhaps engaging in a rule-book slowdown next (or that not-taking-the-fares idea; brilliant), to keep the pressure up. To press the chess analogy, it’s a well-known rule in chess that the threat is frequently more devastating than the execution. So I do think Toussaint is being unnecessarily bullheaded here.
But the MTA shares as much of the blame for this as the union, not to mention Pataki, who was in New Hampshire prepping for his '08 presidential run, which he obviously considered more important than this situation.
He’s right too. No one will blame him for his negligence; the prerequisite to that would be people who had some idea, any idea, of their position vis-a-vis the upper class. Very few have that anymore. Instead, they just take the next hit to their benefits, never mind their wages, with the same attitude as the new frat boys in Animal House: “Thank you sir, may I have another?” ('cause, you know, free health care separates you from the common man, and y’all would rather be common, right?)
And of course, neither Pataki nor Kalikow will be either fined or jailed for their part in this mess. Given that luxury, it’s no wonder the former was in NH and the latter didn’t bother to show until the last minute. They had nothing to lose and have nothing to lose; regardless of their role in this, they’ll have a comfy retirement and a good name. Because for most people the union is always wrong. And of course, because of the Taylor Law, criminals as well.
Which just will make it easier for your boss to take something else out of your benefits package next time around. Doubtless, some other union will be around for you to yell at for this. :dubious:
It is not Kalikow’s job to negotiate contracts. He has professional union liasons for that purpose. Regardless, kindly explain why his absence justifies criminal activity.
I don’t think anybody in this thread has criticized the private line bus strike. (Although the legality of it is actually somewhat dubious.) But that move was neither clever nor subtle. In fact, it gave away, both to the MTA and the public, the fact that Toussaint was itching for a strike and that there was significant resistence from within the TWU.
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. The MTA offered a fair contract including fair pay raises and pension changes that would not even affect the 37,000 people now on strike.
What’s your point?
Oh, that’s your point. Unfortunately, you’re wrong. The union showed only that they were not willing to negotiate, instead relying on the stupid tactic of the private bus line strike. When that failed to convince the MTA that the TWU’s outrageous demands should be accepted, even after the MTA offered higher pay raises in the final hours, they decided TO BREAK THE FUCKING LAW AND SHOVE A HOT POKER UP THE ASS OF EVERYBODY IN THIS CITY AT CHRISTMAS.
Who do you think their boss is? Gov. Pataki? Kalikow? It isn’t. I’ll let you think about it for a while. Ready? Here’s the answer. Don’t highlight it until you give up.
ME! I am their god-damn boss, you ignorant cunt. I pay the fares. I pay the taxes. I look at all the pretty advertisements on the train and in the stations. ME. I am the boss and I don’t like it when my employees commit crimes that FUCK UP MY LIFE.
Not unnecessarily bullheaded. Criminal. He is a criminal. Criminals deserve to go to prison.
You are a pathetic waste of oxygen. You are an ignorant fucking pig. You are the perfect model the classic socialist – screaming from the hilltops about perceived inequity when in reality you are so disgusted by how others choose to live that you see no choice but to force your perverse ideology on the poor, unwashed masses who aren’t as smart as you. Fuck you, you arrogant, condescending piece of shit.
Yeah. That’s because THEY DID NOT COMMIT ANY CRIMES, YOU IMBECILE. People who do not commit crimes are not subject to fines or jail time, you smelly shitstain on the tighty-whities of society.
Yeah, but they’ll have to wait until they’re 65.
No, for most people, a person who signs a contract stipulating that he will not strike because he performs an essential job in the public sector, and it return receives excellent benefits, job security, and good-faith negotiation, who then breaks his word and commits a crime, is a fucking douchebag who should have his head stomped on by a steamroller.
Shut the fuck up, retard. You don’t know anything about my boss or benefits package. I’ll tell you this, though. I earn my paycheck and my benefits, which kick ass. They kick ass because I am valuable, because I have skills that are actually rare and in demand. I don’t need to resort to troglodyte thuggery to be secure in my job, because I am not a lazy shitstain. I work. I educated myself to get where I am. And any boss who tries to fuck me over will find himself without an employee, because unlike a token-taker or train-mopper, there are plenty of employers looking for people like me right fucking now.
I take responsibility for my life, my education and employment. It’s about time that assholes like yourself did the same.
As best as I can figure out, Toussaint felt he had to push for a strike because of the more militant faction in the local. I wouldn’t be surprised if the moving deadlines were because he really didn’t want a strike.
Oh, and the private bus strike? Piece of brilliance. Send members of your union, who aren’t currently MTA employees and therefore aren’t subject to the Taylor law, and who haven’t had a contract in the three years or so since their last strike out first, so that they can risk their jobs for the benefit of future members. It doesn’t necessarily follow that the MTA will take the people when they take over the routes.
About the binding arbitration that Toussaint didn’t want - according to the local 100 website,
Most public unions would love to have binding arbitration. I know mine would. Arbitrators often impose a better contract than the employer would have agreed to- after all, the arbitration panel is not going to pay the money.The fact that TWU doesn’t seem to want arbitration suggests to me that they are aware that the demands are not completely reasonable under the circumstance and feel they have a better chance of getting the MTA to cave in than the arbitrators, who also don’t have to run a transit system.
I just want to say that I think this is the first time in my life I have ever been strongly opposed to union demands. This is the first strike that has made me question the whole idea of unions in general. As far as I can tell, the TWU is being completely unreasonable and the MTA relatively fair, and I’m the sort of person that likes unions and hates the motherfuckers mismanaging public transit (at least here in Boston our public transit’s idiocies could fill the Pit if they each had their own thread, and I doubt the MTA is much better).
Way back earlier in this thread a point was brought up, but never responded to. I’ll take this opportunity to do so:
Actually, I’d vote for people who take the Taylor Law seriously. If any elected politician broke this strike (with no concessions to the TWU), I’d do my best to make sure that they at least got the recognition that Coolidge did.
I don’t know about the legality, but there has indeed been a major accounting scandal at the MTA in the past several months. Rest assured there’s plenty of vitriol for them as well, but I can’t fault them in the specific instance of how they handled this negotiation so far.
Thanks.
This shit has gotten me really riled up. I haven’t participated in a pit thread with this level of vitriol in years. It actually helps a little to get the anger out.
Get your facts straight before you post. My husband works at the NYC Transit Authority. Thankfully his union isn’t a part of the spoiled idiot brigade at the TWU.
The rest of your post was well addressed by friedo.
According to my local CBS affiliate the strikers make 10% more than the people in the private sector.
These twits want it both ways. They want to have the benefits of working for the public sector – job security, large pensions, AND they want the private sector’s large raises and right to strike. I swear to god at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the next demand is for stock options.
Fuck them. I hope they all get frostbite on that stupid picket line.
And fuck all my fellow liberals for defending their amorality and sheer greed. This brings new meaning to the phrase limousine liberal.
And please remember that we’re not talking about coal miners earning $20 a day. The people we’re talking about have a salary and benefits that put them comfortably in the middle class, have job security that most people could only dream about, are mostly unskilled (I’m not being petty – that’s a salient fact), and are inflicting the above on the city because they’ve decided that a significant raise isn’t good enough for them if new members would have to use a third of that raise to pay for their own pensions.
This is fucking ridiculous.
– VarlosZ, a bleeding-heart liberal who can’t brook selfish tyrants (even the blue collar ones).
Just in time to royally screw up the holiday sales season for many, many small retailers. Go TWU Local 100. Had to do it this week, didn’t you? Couldn’t stall until next week or for January. Had to go for maximum inconveniece, not of management, but of people who mostly are worse off than yourselves. You sure made your point, didn’t you. That is, you made your point if the point was to prove that your are idiot goat felchers on a par with MTA management.
I applaud the workers who reported to work despite the strike. I feel sorry for the abuse they will likely receive from the strikers.
Lavender Blue: your hubby must have some sort of desk job. In any event, the TWU site says the following:
…all of which is what I meant, and why a single union can halt the system without having to call on sympathy strikes from other unions.
As for the rest of the answers, they merely reflect a lot of bitterness at the union, which is what Pataki and Kalikow were aiming for, I’m sure. As this would actually help Pataki’s presidential bid, the fact that no serious negotiations really took place until today reflects more on Pataki’s ambitions than on the seriousness of the impasse between the MTA and the union. Pataki had his little moment yesterday, where he got to play to the world. Having got that little video clip for '08, the signal was given, everyone suddenly settled into real negotiations, and suddenly we get word that the strike may be ending. Wotta miracle, eh?
This wasn’t an exercise in labor relations, it was an exercise in gutter-level politics, played to perfection by Pataki and his allies at the MTA. Not that I blame him; as I said and as the vitriolic answers to me reflect, the majority swallowed the party line whole. Good move by Pataki; Toussaint, on the other hand, should reflect on the fact that he fell into a perfectly laid trap, and remember that for the next time.
I would just like to point out that the ‘Not taking fares’ idea is not so brillant.
I, like most commuters, have a monthly metrocard. So it doesn’t matter if I swipe it or not. Now if my card expired and I didn’t have to buy a new one, then it would help me and hurt the MTA.
The MTA has ‘stopped the clock’ on all MetroCards. So my monthly card will not expire and the days of the strike are added to my card.
It sounds as though much of the bitterness directed at the union is on the part of people who wish they had enough power to demand a better deal for themselves. The fact that you have zero power, make a lousy living, and get inadequate benefits does not mean that others should roll over and take it in the ass, too. Maybe Lavender Blue’s husband should quit his job and work for the MTA. The rank and file in the MTA are no more accountable to Friedo than are the tax collectors at the IRS, his own feelings nonwithstanding.
Furthermore, the idea that $60k a year puts someone “comfortably in the middle class” in NYC is laughable on its face. Good luck raising a family anywhere outside the margins of the boroughs on that couch change.
Rather than piss and moan about how much you, your parents, or your spouses suffer compared to the union members, maybe you should tell them to just get a better fucking job.
Median household income in New York City is about $38,000. The idea that a person making 50% more than the median household income is below middle class is laughable on its face. Unless, of course, you’re using some definition of “middle class” that excludes the middle and those directly above it.