Where I live, serving a minor can mean up to a year in jail. There are people underage who look like they are much older. Being sloppy can get you in a lot of trouble. And sometimes, no, it’s difficult to tell how old someone is. I look a lot younger than I am, and I’ve known plenty of people who look much older.
You’re dodging the question. I asked how to objectively tell a person’s age. There is no way without checking ID.
That gets people fired and worse. Frankly your position is objectively wrong, there is no sensible defense for it.
In the specific jurisdictions where highly restrictive and punitive regulations incentivize businesses to this kind of behavior. In other jurisdictions, not so much.
I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m just noting the specific disconnect where your very reasonable position and his unreasonable argument are failing to meet.
Essentially he’s saying that he doesn’t need a submarine to reach your underwater domicile because he can easily drive his car to all the houses that are on land.
Add a few covid masks in and in fact no, you may not be able to do so. Lots of people bitching about being carded more often this past year, but drop your mask (just for a moment and please stay behind the sneeze guard when you do so), take off your baseball cap so I can see your bald spot and grey hairs, or quit your bitching.
Why am I going to ask people who look under forty for their ID, even if they look over 21? Because it’s the goddamned law in this state, that’s why. Why do we have such idiocy? Ask the religious types in the legislature in Indianapolis. Meanwhile, I don’t want to fuck up my employment, my finances, or my freedom bucking a law that is locally enforced.
Seriously, it has to do with arrogant religious types who feel they should tell other people how to live their lives. At least it does in this state.
We had a couple of young Saudis either visiting or otherwise staying briefly in the area (I know this, because they used their passports for ID when asked). First couple weeks those boys were here they were buying booze, ribs, and pork sausage. Initially they acted like a 14 year old having to ask a lady store clerk old enough to be his grandmother where the condoms are, within a week when they realized no one cared that they were breaking rules they got a lot more relaxed. Eventually the novelty wore off, I guess, and they stopped buying all that stuff.
Malaysia cares about your religion. The US cares about your age. Different strokes and all.
I once took a woman in her late 40’s for a teenager. She said it happened to her all the time; she had children in their late teens and genuinely looked about 16 herself. – I say “once”; but I have no idea how often I did that. In that particular case, I happened to find out, because I was around her long enough to hear her talking about her children.
My nephew, at age 15, had a full beard and a grown man’s voice, size, and shape. He could easily have passed for 25 or 30.
I’ve known people whose hair went grey in their teens.
How many of the people I pass on the street, or in a store aisle, are of a significantly different appearance than their actual age, I have no idea. And neither do you know how often you’re guessing strangers’ ages wrong.
And the other part of the point is: wherever you set the age for asking, that age is also going to be blurry, and somebody’s going to blow up at the cashier about it. If the sign says “we card everybody who looks under 30”, somebody’s going to be snarling at the cashier ‘how dare you say I look over 30!’
If you’re going to worry about privacy issues, worry about who’s keeping on file the information that your license plate or for that matter your face was photographed in particular places and times, or the location info that your phone sends continuously to the phone company – to some extent even if you’ve got location turned off.
I’d ask how their day at the Business Factory was going.
Seriously though, It’s against the law to sell alcohol to minors in Australia and that law is (rightly) taken pretty seriously.
I put myself through university by working in hospitality (liquor service). I’ve done government-mandated Responsible Service of Alcohol courses. I’ve been the one having to decide if someone is 25 or not, and risked large personal fines and potential charges for getting it wrong (not to mention getting fired). Do you know often it was an issue?
Zero. Because anyone who looked under 25ish got IDd and if someone genuinely looked older than that and turned out to be 17 or whatever then it wasn’t considered “reasonable” for the the drink provider to think they might actually be Vincent Adultman.
There were other things to go on besides appearance, too. Someone who looked in their mid-late 20s and was buying Vodka Cruisers and Passion Pop and other drinks associated with teenagers would probably get IDd too.
If it’s the law then of course you should follow it and I’ve not said otherwise. I’m talking about store policies that say “We card everyone, even if you’re clearly in your 50s or 60s”.
My position is the reality in both Australia and quite literally every other country on Earth which I have visited except the US. The position that someone who looks middle aged might be a minor is objectively wrong and there is no sensible defence for the existence of sotre policies which require asking people who clearly look like retirees for ID when buying alcohol.
This is not how enforcement works in the US. There is no “reasonable” exception and there is no tolerance of “judgment.” The rules are rigid, inflexible, and punitive.
Are you at all cognizant of the fact that you are arguing something on which you admit you have no direct experience with people who do?
They may or may not agree with you that the standards and practices as defined and applied in the United States are reasonable or unreasonable. If you want to say the United States is stupid and fucked up, they may even clink your glass. But these are the standards. And for you to continue to insist that servicepeople in the United States should unilaterally choose to disregard this standard over its apparent foolishness in defiance of the relevant laws is flatly unreasonable.
Sure, and if there was no restriction on drinking at all then you’d never ask for ID. My argument was based on my local jurisdiction which I made pretty clear when I mentioned how punitive it was in my area.
If we want to argue about whether it’s okay for a toddler to drink vodka that’s another conversation. Calling clerks stupid asking for ID when they risk being a target of a sting and risk jail time is asinine.
I was in a bar in the Caribbean (Dominica, IIRC) and I asked the bartender what the legal drinking age was. I explained my question but he didn’t understand the concept. So, I said, if a little boy came in and wanted to buy beer, would you sell it to him? He told me a little boy wouldn’t have money. Well, what if he did? Oh, I guess his papa gave him money and sent him to get it, yes, I’d sell it to him.
My objection to being unnecessarily required to product ID to purchase alcoholic beverages is that it is not required by law in my state to demand ID from everyone.
My local liquor store does not require ID from me. Come to think of it, I literally cannot remember the last time any liquor store asked me for ID. Or the last time a bar asked for ID. Or my local supermarket asked for ID. Nobody, not one single person, is going to look at me and be unsure that I’m over 21. Even if I’m wearing a mask.
It’s this one chain drugstore that always asks for ID. The same cashier who’s worked there for years, who knows me by name, who knows my children by name, has been asked to require ID from me for I don’t know how many years.
Just back from Nashville. One bar (maybe Alan Jackson’s?) wanted IDs from everyone - 62 yo me, my 91 you mother, and my kids and SOs ranging from 24-29.
Other places just needed the “kids” IDs.
Mom thought it was silly that she needed to produce her ID, but did so.
I’ve never been in a bar in Tennessee. Here in New York, I do not believe that bartenders are required to check everyone’s ID. Even if they are required by law to check, they don’t.
Here’s what New York’s State Liquor Authority has to say to alcohol retailers (not sure if this includes bars and restaurants):
The Authority strongly encourages licensees to ask for proof of age. Requiring customers to produce valid photo identification, together with verifying that the person providing you with the identification is the same person shown on the identification, will help you avoid violations.
The SLA also says that the seller is responsible for sales to minors, no matter what. So I get why places check ID for younger buyers.
It’s still stupid for this one chain to make this cashier (who, again, knows me by name and has for years) ask for ID every time I buy a six-pack.
That is the case in Washington State as well. The law does not require that people selling alcohol ask for ID. But since the consequences are potentially so high for anyone who provides alcohol to anyone underage, it is very reasonable to have such a blanket requirement.
I look young for my age. I’m in my 40s and I’ve had people assume I was in my 20s. I started growing a beard in my 20s to try to look older, since I looked like a teenager and as an IT professional it was hard to get people to respect me. But these days I don’t look like I’m under 21. I still get carded almost everywhere I buy alcohol (restaurants, liquor stores, grocery stores) because they need to cover their asses. If I looked my age they’d still do it.
I don’t blame them. You avoid the situation where patrons get pissed because you ask them for ID but not someone else. And you avoid the situation where you were sure that person was old enough but based on their clothes/makeup/hairstyle and so on, that woman who looked like she was in her 30s was actually 16.
I think of it like this. If you live in a rural area with a half dozen neighbors within a mile of you, and only a rough dirt road going to your property from a main road, I’m sure you can get away with leaving your doors unlocked at night. Maybe it’s silly to lock them. If you then criticize someone who lives in an apartment in a major city because they lock their door when they leave, you’re being an ass.
I don’t blame the cashiers who are required to demand ID either. Not their fault. Retail sucks.
But this is stupid.
ETA:
Here’s an afterthought:
I had to pull out my license today to get something notarized. Now, a notary requiring ID is a whole 'nother thing. The whole point of notarization is that the person signing something has proved that they’re the person whose signature appears on the document. I get this. It’s not a problem. If a notary didn’t ask me for ID, I’d be unhappy. I’m a notary in New York State myself. I totally get it.
But I noticed that my license is actually cracked from all the times I’ve had to pull it out, hand it to someone who then manhandled it so they could scan it, swiped it in some machine, turned it over and over until they found the right direction, etc.
So now I have to get the state to send me a new license, for which there is a fee. And in the meantime, my license will quite likely be rejected as ID by some store with some idiot policy. It certainly won’t work in the scanners anymore.
Oh boo-fucking-hoo. That is one of the most pathetic “woe is me” whines I’ve read in awhile. They are creating such a hardship for you by having you pull out your license.
Let me turn this back around… If you are ruining your license by having to pull it out constantly to buy alcohol, you might need to get help with your drinking problem.
You know, this was fine until now. And, in other threads, I’ve noticed that you bring an interesting and informed perspective to issues, even when I disagree with you.
But when I say that a policy that requires a cashier who knows me by name, who knows my children by name, has to ask for ID from me, is stupid (not the cashier, as I’ve said more than once, the policy), your response is to say that I must have a drinking problem?
Fuck you, asshole. Is that your best shot? Resort to the personal attack over a disagreement (which shouldn’t even be a disagreement) over Rite-Aide’s ID policy.
If it’s that big a deal to you, why keep going back?
I had a client once who was complaining about not liking that I didn’t accept checks, my hours weren’t ideal, I never chatted with him, blahblahblahblahblah.
When he stopped to catch his breath, I said, “if you hate me so much, why do I see your ugly mug here once or twice a week?”
I don’t buy beer there anymore, actually. I do go back from time to time because it’s the only place in the neighborhood that’s open all night, and when I’m coming home late from work, and my wife texts me to say we need diapers or whatever, I’ll stop there.
And, one more time, I’m annoyed by the chain’s policy, not the cashier.
It’s mostly a personal attack at you being a whiner, which you are doing. Do I really think you have an alcohol problem? No, that was clearly tongue-in-cheek. Do I think you have an entitlement problem? Hell yes I do. Get the fuck over yourself, asshole. The retail establishment is doing the right thing by using an objective and consistent standard to keep themselves from getting into legal trouble, If you don’t like it, fuck you.
I totally get that. I’m the kinda guy that does absolute boycotts, though. JC Penny’s for example is dead to me. I’d drive a200 miles for something rather than get it at a Penny’s five miles away.
