Noise zone surrounding airport

[PaulParkhead]

@ElvisL1ves

It isn’t “mystique”, it’s standardization and efficiency. Conciseness, especially in radio communications where a lot of people have to pass on information but can only do so one at a time, is a very, very good thing. Use of the proper codes, in both the terminology and the syntax, gets the necessary information across the most efficiently and clearly and safely. That concept includes weather reports, which often have to be transmitted by radio, and for which the standard terminology in the standard syntax is expected - if it weren’t, something necessary could be missed, or the extra time could take pilots’ attention away from something else critical.

It is standard among pilots to take pride in their command of proper procedures in communication as well as in all the other functions they perform - in the cause of safety as well as maintaining control of their environment. That’s a good thing. Sloppy radio work is deeply and widely disapproved of, as it should be. Maintaining a “mystique” has nothing to do with it. Safety is the main goal.

And you’d find the same thing to be true in almost any profession. Jargon has a purpose.
Paul, it isn’t that hard or expensive to get started flying for real, if you’re interested. Sim flying is great preparation for it. There are a number of pilots on the board who would be happy to help - the fun isn’t something that gets lessened by sharing, it’s enhanced by it.

OK, you guys have convinced me. I withdraw my comments about “mystique”. I suppose I figured that if I, a non-pilot, could figure this stuff out with my PC and about $200 worth of hardware and software, then anyone could. And of course, the worst consequence of me making a balls-up of something is that I have to restart my flight. No-one’s gonna die. Although such a problem does feel like a personal defeat

I think I’d be a reasonable student of real flying - I understand some of the basic ideas, though you should see me trying to sim-land a C172. On the computer it’s comical, but in real life it would be, well, umm…

So I would like to try it for real, with proper instructors (or improper instructors, provided they are young and female). Are there any UK-based pilots on here? That’s where I’ll be headed soon. And I’m interested in your comment that sim-flying is good preparation. I hear many contradictory opinions from real pilots about this. Most interesting is the idea that because the sim doesn’t allow proper visual observation, sim-pilots who end up in a real plane spend too much time with their eyes glued to the instruments, and never bother to look around them. But anyhow, some pilots seem to say it’s somewhat realistic, others say no way.

I can understand that in the sim, where looking out of the window is of limited use. But in real life, that surely must be a limitation; or a bad habit to be ditched. Another place pilots have commented is setting elevator trim. I’m told that in real planes, there is some tactile feedback that helps. In FS, I usually end up bouncing around like a yoyo until I happen on the right setting more or less by chance. Well, maybe not by “chance” - I understand what I’m trying to do, it’s just that there’s no way to do it other than hitting the switch and watching what happens.

[Broomstick]

@PaulParkhead

OK, you guys have convinced me. I withdraw my comments about “mystique”. I suppose I figured that if I, a non-pilot, could figure this stuff out with my PC and about $200 worth of hardware and software, then anyone could. And of course, the worst consequence of me making a balls-up of something is that I have to restart my flight. No-one’s gonna die.

Let me just say that my experience flying an airplane has taught me that making a mistake does not automatically result in a disaster. In fact, all of my “oh, shit!” flights have ended with no one hurt and nothing broke. Flight school teaches you how to deal with mistakes.

My husband did find it a little annoying the time he got a plane into a spin on MS FlightSim and I just reached over, >bink< on the keyboard, and fixed the problem. But then, I learned spin recovery in a real airplane, which is just a bit more stressful than doing it on a sim

I think I’d be a reasonable student of real flying - I understand some of the basic ideas, though you should see me trying to sim-land a C172. On the computer it’s comical, but in real life it would be, well, umm…

I have successfully landed in real life over a thousand times - including on one occasion an emergency landing into a farm field. I can’t land on MS FlightSim to save my life, I actually find it more difficult.

Are there any UK-based pilots on here?

I believe so, although I’m not one of them. However, it is MUCH more expensive to take flying lessons anywhere but the US.

I hear many contradictory opinions from real pilots about this.

Sim experience does have some use, just as long as you don’t think it makes you a real-life pilot. Some of the anti-sim sentiment comes from old hands who don’t understand the technology or how it can be integrated into flight training.

Most interesting is the idea that because the sim doesn’t allow proper visual observation, sim-pilots who end up in a real plane spend too much time with their eyes glued to the instruments, and never bother to look around them.

And that IS a drawback to extensive sim experience, but it can be surmounted if you’re aware of it and are willing to work on it.

But anyhow, some pilots seem to say it’s somewhat realistic, others say no way.

Sims are useful for training in certain procedures, but not all. You have to keep in mind the limitations of PC-based sims.

Another place pilots have commented is setting elevator trim. I’m told that in real planes, there is some tactile feedback that helps. In FS, I usually end up bouncing around like a yoyo until I happen on the right setting more or less by chance. Well, maybe not by “chance” - I understand what I’m trying to do, it’s just that there’s no way to do it other than hitting the switch and watching what happens.

Yes, that is true. One of the things I find difficult about flying sims is the LACK of feedback. You have resistance when steering an airplane through actual air that you don’t get in a sim. We did purchase a force-feedback stick, which did help, but we didn’t have force-feedback rudder pedals (I once kicked our PC rudder pedals across a room - I had been trained to react with the force necessary for a real airplane, which vastly overpowered our sim set up), you don’t have g forces acting on your butt, and so on.

[PaulParkhead]

Thanks Broomstick for your comments.

Let me just say that my experience flying an airplane has taught me that making a mistake does not automatically result in a disaster. In fact, all of my “oh, shit!” flights have ended with no one hurt and nothing broke. Flight school teaches you how to deal with mistakes.

I guess. It’s just tricky, on the sim, to figure out what is an “Oh Shit! I screwed the pooch on that one!” moment and what is an “Oh Shit! We’re all going to die!” moment. Also, simmers who fly online tend to disable the crash recognition functions: there are too many assholes who just try to crash you out of the game. It does mean, though, that I have trouble with the difference between a technical error and a fatal error.

I have successfully landed in real life over a thousand times - including on one occasion an emergency landing into a farm field. I can’t land on MS FlightSim to save my life, I actually find it more difficult.

I’ve heard other real pilots say similar things. With no tactile feedback or useful visibility, sim pilots have limited resources for disaster recovery. But we can experiment a bit, and we can afford to make mistakes, even critical mistakes. We can even do stuff like turn off the weather while practicing difficult moves. That’s an interesting and useful idea in a sim, but not something real pilots could do.

Sim experience does have some use, just as long as you don’t think it makes you a real-life pilot. Some of the anti-sim sentiment comes from old hands who don’t understand the technology or how it can be integrated into flight training.

That seems reasonable. Most simmers don’t delude themselves into thinking they could fly a real plane. I suppose we’d do a little better than average, in that we can normally recognise instruments and controls, and understand the general principles of flight. But fly a real-life a/c? Not a chance.

With pilots, I suppose many don’t really understand computers. That’s something I’ve dealt with a lot in my professional life, and I learned to live with it. The few pilots I know who’ve actually used MSFS are generally quite enthusiastic about it - while accepting the reservations you have mentioned.

And that IS a drawback to extensive sim experience, but it can be surmounted if you’re aware of it and are willing to work on it.

I would be aware of it, I hope. I hate not being able to see anything out the window. In sim, I keep switching to spot view, just to get a look around. But then, of course, I can’t control the a/c properly - there just aren’t any visual cues.

Sims are useful for training in certain procedures, but not all. You have to keep in mind the limitations of PC-based sims.

I tend to feel, as a non-expert, that sims might well be useful in terms of general aviation principles, and also in terms of instrument use. Perhaps, too, the ideas of navigating and following charts. I even have some ideas how to program the FMC of a 767. But actually flying the things? Not really, and that basic understanding is critical. With the sim, we step above our experience, and learn to do stuff like program an FMC before we can correctly operate rudder pedals.

Knowledge is good, of course, but that doesn’t strike me as the best approach for general training. It could, however, be useful for reinforcing knowledge.