non-americans only, please: your opinions on clinton and bush

Great Debates
21

Clinton: I feel he’s got to take some of the credit for the economic growth experienced during his tenure and his eight years in charge have been relatively peaceful ones. I agree with London_Calling when he says Clinton should have done more with the surpluses but when you consider everything he’s done in Northern Ireland I feel he’s owed a lot of respect.

Bush: Well No-ones had time to really assess him in his new job but the early signs during the campaign did not look good (subliminabubble…guh? :wink: ). I am also unreservedly against the death penalty so I don’t particularly like him on that score. His apparent lack of respect for the environment does not endear him to me either. However, as I’ve said he hasn’t has much time to show people his intentions so only time will tell, I guess.

22

Canada here. IMHO Americans have chosen well during the past 50 years of my life. Damn good thing too, since I have no choice in choosing the leader of the free world. They seem to have chosen the right person for the right times, notwithstanding their personal shortcomings. The one exception to that was Jimmy Carter, whose leadership left a lot of us feeling despair for the future as well as double digit interest rates, inflation, high unemployment and a sense of hopelessness. Having said that, I respect Carter as a human being more than any of the rest of the presidents.

The failures of the objectives of the Clinton administration I lay squarely on the republicans. No president has ever had to suffer the bullshit and political hatred he had to go through.But have we ever experienced an economy like this for two presidential terms?

I regret that Al Gore didn’t get in, because I believe the time is now for some serious attempt to deal with environmental issues. However his time will come in four years when both houses are controled by democrats again.

That is if Bush screws up. I think he will surprise us. They sure like him in Texas.

23

I agree with what London_Caling and Spiny Norman said. But I am an american and not a foreigner. My wife is Japanese though. So I’ll give her 2cents later.

Dude:"I would rather Gore had won, he seems boring but reliable, lets face it, we have Tony Blair who is MR BORING and saintly but well, its like voting for your maths teacher, don’t you want someone who is like er, reliable ?

Calling Gore reliable is equivalent to calling a Yugo reliable. You never know what Gore tands for.

Casdave :"there does seem to be the feeling that the only asset that Bush has that qualified him for the post was his parentage rather than any intellectual or worthy moral achievements.

The same has been repeatedly said for Gore as well.

Several posters mentioned the Death Penalty. I have no idea why this concerns you. It doesn’t effect you. Anyway. Gore/Bush/Clinton/Bush Sr/Reagan all support it. Bush can’t be blamed for Texas being the Death penalty capitol of the world. It has been for decades.

And speaking of the environment. I have no idea where most of these people are living. I have been to Europe, Australia, Asia, Mexico and Africa and the cleanest least polluted place other than Singapore that I have ever seen is America.

Try to breathe in Tokyo/Hong Kong/Berlin/Mombasa/Mexico City and you will agree with me. These places have some of the nastiest factories/trash problems anywhere. You would not believe how bad it is in some of the foreign cities. I smoke and still had problems with it.

Didn’t you know that european/japanese cars, the last time I checked, still often use carbs and lack a catalitic converter. Maybe they have advanced but several years ago this was true. And I know that Japanese cars stink NOW from personal experience. BMW’s imported to the US had cats but European/asian driven Beemers didn’t and were faster and stunk in comparison. How about the trucks and busses overseas!!! PEEEUUUWW!!

Next topic:

My wife says that the Japanese people and government don’t care who the president is. Just as long as he isn’t a Democrat. I guess that they have a bad rep with the Japanese economy over there.

The Japanese were scratching their heads when Clinton was on trial though. They have no problem with adultery and feel that it is a perfectly normal thing for a HUSBAND to do. :smiley:

24

Grienspace"I regret that Al Gore didn’t get in, because I believe the time is now for some serious attempt to deal with environmental issues. However his time will come in four years when both houses are controled by democrats again."

You REALLY believe that Gore will be back?

I wonder how that is even remotely possible.

25

I really appreciate hearing the views from other countries and the rest of us Americans ought to listen to them as well. People from Europe and around the world overwhelmingly favored Gore, and overwhelmingly felt that the Ken Starr investigation and impeachment was unfair to Clinton.

The trouble is, many right-wing Americans regard opposition from foreign countries as a virtual endorsement of their positions. To take stock of views from abroad–to allow them to influence U.S. politics–is internationalism, which in turn amounts to a one-world government.

I only wish I were exaggerating. Just look at how the folks at Bob Jones University equate interracial dating with a one-world government.

26

Erm, maybe for the same reasons people outside of South Africa were concerned about apartheid. Maybe for the same reasons people who biologically can’t get pregnant are concerned about abortion. It’s a human rights issue, regardless of who it affects.

The fact that the US still has the death penalty and that it’s applied in what seems to be a worryingly reckless fashion makes it rather difficult for the rest of the world to take it seriously when it starts talking about human rights issues in other countries. If you think I’m exaggerating try reading the foreign press sometime. The US is seen as astonishingly hypocritical in this regard.

27

Not really that hypocritical if you realise goverments imprison people:)

28

Ruadh:"Erm, maybe for the same reasons people outside of South Africa were concerned about apartheid. Maybe for the same reasons people who biologically can’t get pregnant are concerned about abortion. It’s a human rights issue, regardless of who it affects.

The fact that the US still has the death penalty and that it’s applied in what seems to be a worryingly reckless fashion makes it rather difficult for the rest of the world to take it seriously when it starts talking about human rights issues in other countries. If you think I’m exaggerating try reading the foreign press sometime. The US is seen as astonishingly hypocritical in this regard."

A human rights issue? Hypocritical? Erm?

See that is where America is relatively sane. If someone is on death row they are there for a pretty good reason in my opinion. Why let them live? They surely killed!

Europe and most of the world including the US says that abortion is OK. Isn’t that applied in a “worrying and reckless fashion” as well? Are the babies murderers? No I think they are innocent at that point.

But the Death penalty is not ok?

Did you use the term Hypocritical?

Almost all americans are for the Death Penalty so why is it even mentioned?

29

mx-6 said:

Yeah! 'Cus Lord knows the courts never make mistakes! :rolleyes:

You can, of course, back up this statement. Right?

30

mx-6*: There are plenty of threads on the death penalty and abortion if you want to debate those issues. Might I point out that I am posting from a European country where both are outlawed.

Asmodean: Huh?

31

This is not a ‘lets criticize the US’ thread, the OP asked how the US was percieved, or rather Bush, outside of the US.

If these are the views ordinary folk they are likely based on recieved information from the media.

This shows what an uphill task Bush might have in trying to come across the the rest of the world.

Sometimes you can be too close to a situation to be objective, I doubt that I have an independant view of my country, the UK, which is why it can be useful to listen to another outside viewpoint.

32

I would argue that Clinton was elected a true progressive, who gradually chickened out until he was just a boring-to-mildly-evil centrist. Bush, on the other hand, will be an interesting perspective on whether it is strictly necessary for the head of state of a major nation to be a vertebrate.

33

American living in Japan.

The tone of the nightly news programs seems to be:

Clinton
In general: He got a blow job. Huh-huh.
Domestic Policy: :confused:
Foreign Policy: :confused:

Bush
In general: His dad was President.
Domestic Policy: :confused:
Foreign Policy: :confused:

Needless to say, unless their scandals have tits, most Japanese politicians don’t lose much sleep worrying about hard-hitting investigative journalism.

–sublight.

34

German opinion update:

I was at a motette (concert) at a church here in East Germany on Saturday, which was the day of the inauguration. The minister held a short, poignant sermon mentioning the irony of someone claiming to be a Christian and swearing on a bible while being responsible for so many executions. This perception is certainly not unusual here.

35

I was just this weekend talking to a friend in Hull. Admittedly, he’s voted liberal and Labor all his life, but his biggest question was how Bush, a former user of cocaine and a recovered/recovering alcoholic, plans to continue to prosecute the “war on drugs.” And manage to keep any semblance of the moral high ground when he’s doing so.

36

Pardon me . . . I meant “Labour” of course.

(Bloody Americans, don’t know how to spell . . .)

37

“To show mah dedication to battling the evil drug smugglers who are shippin’ this poison into our country, I have signed an executive order requirin’ that all illegal drugs siezed will be shipped directly to the White House – so that I may devote my full attention to the crisis and personally samp-- er, I mean, inspect them to better follow the crisis.”

(Obviously, this isn’t a real quote. Dubya couldn’t say this many words without screwing up at least six of them… :slight_smile: )

38

“I was just this weekend talking to a friend in Hull. Admittedly, he’s voted liberal and Labor all his life, but his biggest question was how Bush, a former user of cocaine and a recovered/recovering alcoholic, plans to continue to prosecute the “war on drugs.” And manage to keep any semblance of the moral high ground when he’s doing so.”

I was wondering the same thing myself. How can he enforce the laws now??

But then I remembered Clinton and realized that we are looking at the same thing except Bush has “supposedly” stopped breaking the law.

Remember that many serving the country actually lose their jobs over fraternization. A much lesser offense than Mr. Clinton committed. And about drugs, I have never heard of someone in Washington having to go through the Urinalisis process so well never know about any of them.

Just the Military.

39

Canada here.
Nobody outside of folks unconsciously-influenced by U.S. Culture seriously considers the American President as leader of the free world. Except that you have lots of guns, missles, and nukes to act like a big bully of a nation. :smiley:

Clinton is regarded as a smart man who was able to reach consensus. So what if he couldn’t keep it in his pants.

Dubya is seen as an illiterate (It sure looked like he memorized his inauguration speech, for one) who couldn’t get his brother to rig an election correctly.

He’s viewed as being bad for our country’s trade relations, mostly because he seems to be completely ignorant that Canada is the United States’ largest trade partner. (Mexico City may have a comparable population, but they’re all poor.) This has already started with an embargo against potatoes, and I predict it will be followed up this summer by an embargo against Cdn softwood lumber.

He’s also seen as a hypocrite. He killed a record number of prisoners while Governor of Texas (including many who had IQs low enough they could not comprehend exactly what their impending doom meant), and yet on his first weekday in office he announces a plan to remove funding for all international agencies that provide information about abortion.
[puzzlement] How’s that go again? A “culture of life” that advocates the death penalty, but refuses to let a 12-year-old raped by Ugandan guerillas know that she can get an abortion? [/puzzlement]

Dubya and Clinton may both have charm, but Clinton had more brains, and history shows he had good advisors. It remains to be seen if Dubya also has good advisors.

40

Yeah, Yeah, our media said that about Reagan as well when he first got in, and we were a lot more apprehensive then. Hell, many of us (not me) thought World War III was on the horizon. But then Reagan signed the first NAFTA between our two countries. Sure, GW may be from Texas, but he’s still his daddy’s son, and I can’t believe that Canada never came up in conversation around the dinner table.

With regard to embargos, you should know of course that its congress that we mainly have to deal with. Presidents don’t like pissing off other world leaders.