Non-Americans : What is your reaction to the US gun control debate ?

In My Humble Opinion
21

“A better way.” So condescending. I do not want to live the way you do. You will take things from me.

I really enjoy shooting guns. All kinds of guns: rifles, pistols, shotguns, air rifles and air pistols. Note that this has nothing to do with Jesus (I am atheist), or fear of the government. I am just a guy who really enjoys guns. I particularly like military firearms from the mid-twentieth century, many of which I personally own.

My favorite guns: Winchester 9422 and most all .22LR target pistols. Tons of fun.

All that said, this is a good thread that reminds me that one size does not fit all.

22

Ah, OK. Thing is, on the mainland UK, the “mental health” and “socioeconomic factors” caveats are really quite broad. You shouldn’t be lumping the mainland UK in with Ireland here (no idea about Finland). The US map isn’t very nuanced either - access to services isn’t what it might be in some states.

23

Wow, I had forgotten just how preachy, pompous and pretentious Europeans can be.

‘Those who would surrender their freedom for security will lose both and deserve neither.’

How many ‘Bible thumpers’ are there in the USA? How many of them “defend guns”? Do you know the answers to either of those two questions?

Remember, Jesus ended up getting himself executed by those whose job it was to provide for public safety and security.

24

I really think that it is important for non-Americans to understand that the US really is two countries. Our culture has been dominated by Red America for a long time: fearful, religous, xenophobic, ignorant of the outside world and anti-intellectual, but that is finally coming to an end. Unfortunately, they won’t go wuietly and the next ten years are going to be ugly.

25

I hope you are right about the coming to an end part, and wrong about the ‘ugly’ part. Just let guys like me keep our guns.

26

It seems like there are a lot of ‘bible thumpers’ and gun defenders in the U.S. because that’s how you’re portrayed on the media (your own media) and in other TV shows. I guess if America wants people to think of them differently, they need to stop making shows like Duck Dynasty and that show with the fat little girl that everyone loves. Then you’ve got Fox News and stuff like that, which makes it even worse. Yikes!

Not saying it’s right that everyone judges based upon that, but seriously, what else does the world have to judge you on?

27

Didn’t Jesus also say “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a semi-automatic AR-15.” and “Loading a magazine into his M1911, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables.”

28

No American I know thinks the Constitution is infallible (and I hope every American believes that laws that contravene the Constitution are illegal and unenforceable.)

29

So what’s stopping you from being so gullible?

30

If only He’d had a gun.

31

What?

32

So it’s all the doing of the GOP?

Democrats may stand in Obama’s way on gun measures

33

So what are you saying? That everyone you deem to be of “Red America” is going to be put up against a wall and shot? Or are you just going to torture them until they confess the error of their ways and promise to do, say and think whatever you and your big brother government order them to?

34

Um, this thread was supposed to be for those living outside American culture to reflect on their views, I thought. How did it turn into Emanj defends American culture? We get it, it’s a different view from inside. We all have heard the song you’re singing, we know all the words even.

We aren’t condemning American culture just sharing our observations, as the OP requested, sheesh!

35

If only He’d had a gun.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve actually heard that argument used to support gun ownership. And the opposite; one of the big name preachers a while back (Falwell, maybe?) used the Crucifixion to support the death penalty using the logic that without the death penalty, there’d have been no Crucifixion and therefore no Christianity.

36

Grow up and stop believing everything you hear, read and see in the media.

37

Maybe you should understand that you shouldn’t get all your information about a national culture from TV shows. Those programs are popular because they portray exaggerated stereotypes that do not represent reality. The whole reason people watch them is because they are so bizarre. People don’t want reality shows that are really about the reality of people’s lives. That would be boring. And viewers can feel superior to the morons on those shows.

Much like you non-Americans are doing right now. You folks sure are gullible.

38

I think you have me confused with someone else. I’m Canadian and not defending American culture at all.

Of course I don’t think all of America acts like what is portrayed on TV. I’m answering the OP. Here in this thread is another example of why the globe is all :dubious: about Americans.

39

And I should say, folks on this board probably have a more favourable view of Americans then those that don’t have much interaction with them and can only rely on what they see on TV or hear from other people. That said, I’ve seen the extremists on here, and that is frightening as well.

40

Well, since you asked…

Firstly, I think a lot of people on both sides of the debate in the US would do well to remember Most first-world countries allow civilian ownership of firearms.

America is not The Only Country In The World Where People Can Own A Gun. It is entirely possible for the average person, should they be so inclined, to legally obtain firearms in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa and many (most?) Western European countries.

What is true is that most of those countries restrict ownership of Military Style Semi-Automatic Rifles (MSSARs). There’s been, very approximately, eleventy gazillion posts here from people saying banning MSSARs because of how they look is stupid and look at all these civilian hunting rifles that will also be banned.

Here’s the thing: MSSARs tend to attract a certain type of person. Not you, [del]naan bread[/del] Perfectly Sensible And Reasonable SDMB Poster Who Legally Owns a Semi-Automatic Rifle (see my signature), but you know perfectly well the sort of people I’m talking about. The sort of people who give you, the sensible gun owner, a bad name by wearing full camo and tactical rig to the range (despite not being in the military), openly talking about how people of the “wrong” ethnicity/religion/minority group should “fuck off back to where they came from” (possibly with the suggestion guns like the one the speaker has may be employed to expedite this process), and people who clearly have “issues”. These people are not queuing up to buy bolt or lever-action hunting rifles on principle.

Do I think MSSARs should be banned? No.

But for some reason, MSSARs seem to be the weapon of choice for unbalanced individuals looking to cause mayhem. When was the last time someone went on a rampage with a Winchester lever-action rifle? I suspect the photographs accompanying news reports of such an incident would all be in sepia and have a lot of stern people with moustaches in them. Thus, I understand where the “Ban Assault Weapons” people are coming from, even though I don’t necessarily agree with them.

Personally, I think the idea of owning guns to Defend Against Tyranny™ is laughably absurd. Using guns to fight “The Government” or whatever stopped being even moderately realistic before World War II. Every Belgian (and French, for that matter) farmer had a shotgun and that did approximately fuck all against German Panzers and Stukas. In the modern era with all the stuff the military has access to? Someone (or even a small group of someones) has no chance.

Now, here’s the thing - I believe it’s staggeringly unlikely the US will “Ban Guns” full stop, for the simple reason there’s too many of them and there are numerous court decisions on the subject, including one which I believe asserts the right to own handguns for self-defence. Combine that with the acceptance of “hunting” or “sporting” arms and I think most sensible people agree the black helicopters won’t be coming for anyone’s Smith & Wesson Model 10, their Remington M870, or their Weatherby Mk V anytime in the foreseable (or even distant) future.

I do, however, think it’s possible in the US that MSSARs will eventually either end up like full-auto weapons there are now (New manufacture prohibited, existing guns must be registered, ownership requires police checks and payment of a tax).

And as someone mentioned in another thread recently, the vast majority of gun owners in the US would probably hand their guns over if they were banned for the simple reason those people value their general existence, family, jobs etc - not to mention being alive and/or not being in prison - far more than they value owning a TactiCool MSSAR.

I guess the point I’m making is that banning MSSARs would not, IMHO, be The End of Liberty In America or anything like that. It hasn’t been anywhere else civilised in modern times.

Having said all that, though, I don’t think the guns are the issue. I think the US has some very serious social problems (Honestly, how the fuck can any reasonable person possibly have a genuine objection to universal health care???) and rather than getting worked up over things like whether a semi-auto AK-47 is a greater public safety risk than a Ruger Mini-14, the underlying causes - why are people going on shooting rampages? - need to be addressed, and the money that would be spent implementing and enforcing an MSSAR ban/restriction would be better used going towards social services, mental health and education etc.