Why is the US the only country that seems to care about firearms?

Great Debates
1

Looking at all the gun control debates that occur both here and elsewhere has brought to mind a question, one that’s probably been asked before, so feel free to point me to it if it has, because with all the gun control threads that have been started, I wouldn’t know where to begin searching for it.

You hear about foreign countries constantly stereotyping Americans as “gun crazy.” They certainly have a point, in that Americans care much more about keeping the right to bear arms than any other, it seems. But why? Why do other countries get along so well without guns, or at least the huge debates over guns that we have? It can’t just be because we have it in our Constitution alone. How come other countries seem to think that having guns to protect themselves from tyrannical government (the purported reason to have the right in the first place here in the U.S.) is so unimportant, when we think it is? Is it JUST because of the American Revolution and our cultural origins? Can it be that simple? In short, where does this separation in attitudes come from, anyway?

Of course, answers like “Them furriners are too sheep-like to understand how their guv’mint is controlling them!” and “Other countries are sane enough to realize that you can stop crime without giving everyone bazookas” aren’t very useful, but I’m sure I won’t get THAT many responses like that. :slight_smile: Thanks in advance!

2

Well, I’ll try to reply without stooping to conform to one of your stereotypes. Please bear with me.

America and Americans were among the first to realize that the right to self-preservation was a basic, inalienable human right.

When the Constitution was written, the fact that many Reigning Monarch Du Jours had quite deliberately disarmed the populace in order to make it easier to tax and exploit them, as well as make it less likely his or her head would wind up on a pike flying from a battlement somewhere, was fresh in colonists’ minds.

Thus, to ensure that what they’d seen, lived through, and knew had happened before, from happening again, the right to self-preservation and defense of both ones’ home and homeland was among the first to be enumerated in the fledgeling Bill Of Rights.

Now, you should understand that the Bill Of Rights does not “bestow” rights upon Americans, it does not “grant” rights, it does not bequeath them upon us. Rather it recognizes them as inalienable, a given, a fact of life just as the sun rising in the morning. It is not something to be given or taken away by whatever or whoever is in power that week, it is a declaration that one has the undisputable right to defend oneself from harm, injury or death.

Now, while you try to wrap your mind around that, you might also keep in mind that not all other countries “get along so well” without private ownership of firearms.

I’m sure this will sound like rhetoric to you, but take Switzerland; Each able-bodied Swiss citizen above the age of eighteen MUST sign up for a fixed minimum of military duty, AND must keep what our local media would undoubtedly label an “assault rifle” in their homes.
Now, while crime is not “nonexistent” there, it is very low- far lower than our wonderful legislators would have us believe, when we’re told of “blood running in the streets” just from the mere slight relaxation of concealed-carry licensing.

Now, tell me this, since you seem to know what’s better for us: Since there are some sixty to eighty million gun owners in America, who collectively own roughly 200 million firearms, of which something like one percent OF one percent are used in crimes yearly, why is this such a problem for our lawmakers, when drunk drivers cause more deaths each year, but without the nationwide fanfare?

If “guns in schools” are such a problem- having been involved in fewer than forty deaths in the past decade- then why isn’t anyone screaming (should you excuse the exprssion) bloody murder over the hundred-plus school children who are killed each year, nationwide, during such activities as football and swimming?

And finally, again I’m sure this will sound like more “gun nut rhetoric”, but if gun control worked, why is crime so high in Washington DC? Weren’t a couple of legislators recently shot by a mugger there? Shot by a crook with a gun, in a city where the private ownership of a handgun has been severely restricted to the point of a near-total ban, since 1975?

Now wait a minute… if a criminal is one who, by definition, doesn’t obey the law, why is it assumed that another law will stop his evil ways?

3

Well, generally true, but the better & more informed “gun control” laws I ever heard suggested - and ones that most pro-gun lobbies refute - involve licensing and registration, which by the way is de facto done in the Swiss example above.

[What do you have ? Are you trained to use it properly ? etc…] Then one can filter for the “bad eggs”, much as cops check for license and registration for cars…

4

I think Bosnia, Ethiopia, Congo, Columbia, Afghanistan, Iran and Nigeria all firmly believe in gunowner’s rights.

5

There was a nice article in Playboy last January about the development of “gun culture” in America. It had an interview with Michael Bellesiles, author of * Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture *
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_bellesiles_plby.html
(Note: No exposed nipples on link). If his information is coreect, it would shatter a lot of the myths about guns in American history that were so often hear.

6

Huh. I could’ve sworn I did my best to try not to pass judgment. Mine was a (relatively) simple question that didn’t require me to have any opinions whatsoever on the gun control debate, and I tried to write the OP with that in mind. Rereading, I think I see how it happened. Oh, well, I guess I should be more careful in the future…

7

Jaimest, you might double-check Bellesiles as a reference to the anti-gun argument.

The book has been well investigated, if not outright debunked. Bellesiles has been shown to have not only ignored data in his own reference material that contradicted his results, but other references he mentions in footnotes, when read directly (rather than a short snippet quoted in his book) in fact turned out to argue the exact opposite point.

No one’s had the chance to peer review his research material, since it was ruined in a basement flooding at his house. But many of the references listed in the book’s own footnotes has been shown to be at least misrepresented, if not outright erroneous.

Here’s a spot to start:

And a quote:
“But there’s a problem. A growing number of respected scholars, from across the political spectrum, are saying that Mr. Bellesiles’s research and conclusions are wrong. They’ve charged that “Arming America” is riddled with errors so enormous as to seriously undermine his work. They argue he has incorrectly tabulated probate records, failed to include facts that strongly argue the opposite case and misquoted and miscited sources. Mr. Bellesiles denies all this, but has not yet handed over evidence to refute his critics.”

From this site:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3acca9af7994.htm

And Jorge, when something is subject to registration and licensing, it’s no longer a right, is it?
Right now, today, as we speak- type anyway- it is already illegal for a felon to own a firearm. It is already illegal for a felon to attempt to buy a firearm, it’s illegal for someone with mental problems to own a firearm, and it’s illegal to use a firearm in connection with a crime. For that matter, murder, rape, burglary, robbery, carjacking and assault are already illegal.

The two scumbags at Columbine had broken over a dozen laws before a single shot had been fired. (Underage posession of a firearm, posession of a short-barreled shotgun, fabrication of explosive devices, making false emergency services calls, carrying a firearm on school grounds, etc.)
They planted over fifty bombs, including one made of two ten-pound propane tanks wrapped with nails- a bomb roughly equivalent to several sticks of Dynamite.

Making bombs is against the law too.

Boy, all them laws worked real good, didn’t they?

8

While I have a policy of never, ever involving myself in firearms debates, I felt obliged to give out a sharp poke in the eye to the person who posted this:

What is that, copied directly from Sophistry for Dummies?

Feh.

9

I can point out a bunch of countries that DIDN’T firmly believe in Gun Owner’s Rights. You wanna match list-for-list?

10

:rolleyes: Cite?

11

Geez, I knew conservatives had no sense of humor but this is ridiculous. For the record I doubt any of those governments have severe gun limitations, but I’m going to agree with Some Guy and never post on gun debates again. Remember, 23% of gun owners think the world is out to get them (that’s a poll done by Widgery & Associates).

12

Just to give you a “furriners” angle, do with it what you wish.

Im in the UK. Whilst there is undoubtedly a rise in the number of offences involving firearms in this country, it has not yet reached the point where most criminals are packing heat.

If you are unlucky enough to meet a mugger on the street or a burglar in your home it is still extremely unlikely that he will have a gun.

However it seems to me that you would be foolish to make that assumption in the US. So if all the bad guys have guns the good guys may as well have them too.

The good ol’ “slippery slope” argument comes into play here. We figure the less guns there are around, legal or illegal, the better. However, I can see you have gone beyond this point in the US so it is a different argument there. I think if we had the same proportion of our criminals carrying guns as you have, I would be more inclined to wish to own a gun myself.

Regarding the Government, I think we maybe do have slightly more trust of the Government than people generally do in the US. Whether this trust is misplaced is an argument for another thread.

13

Cite please.

So you threw out something like that without really knowing if it was true or not?

Good idea.

14

Because the Fifty States are the only states which are truly free; and because they want to stay that way!

(Too terse? Perhaps, but complete!)

15

Too terse? You misspelled “innacurate.”

It may give one a warm feeling to believe that one lives in the only “truly free” location, but it basically indicates an abysmal ignorance of the world at large.

The answer is also in no way complete. One can be a strong proponent of gun ownsership (or at least a strong opponent of excessive government control of weapons) and still recognize that the cultural implications of extensive gun ownership are not easily answered by slogans (particularly inaccurate ones).

16

I guess we Americans were just lucky.:slight_smile:

17

Just because most people of the rest of the world are slaves to their governments, doesnt mean the citizens of the U.S. should be. Over here, we can tell our government to screw off. The U.S was founded by Free Men. The only way we’ll remain free is if we retain the GOD given right to blow the head off of any government thug who seeks to take away our Constitutional Rights.

18

By severe gun limitations I am assuming that you mean the laws themselves, as opposed to how effectively they are enforced. So, once more, cite?

The first one you posted was one too many, IMO.

Do you have a link to this poll?

As to the OP, I must admit I really don’t have a satisfactory answer. The best I can come up with is that America is unique. Why it is unique in this particular way is a subject with which I am not equipped to deal.

19

gorewonfla: and another poll shows that 42% of the people who voted for Gore were mouth breathing imbeciles (that’s a poll conducted by Fudgery and Co., LLC).

20

There is a very good look at the comparative cultures and attitudes towards guns, among quite a few different countries, in the book: The Samurai, The Mountie, and The Cowboy, by David B. Kopel. It actually gets into quite a deep look at the historical and cultural background of about 10 different countries (IIRC), and their respectives attitudes and experiences with gun control.

A fascinating read. Quite an authoritative work as well, with full cites and notes. If you are serious about understanding this subject, please stop by your local libaray and check it out.