We routinely transfer Angolans - including their family - to short term assignments in the US ( Houston, TX and San Ramon, CA. ) and they are required to attend a safety meeting. Needless to say, gun violence makes up a significant portion of the lecture and in several cases, this has persuaded several employees to turn down the assignment.
Angola ranks 34th in terms of gun ownership ( 2.8 MM guns in private hands ) but the last reported gun murder I could find occurred in 2010 when FLEC rebels attacked a bus carrying the Togolese football team in Cabina Province. Despite this, when I tell people in the US that my family and I live and work there, they remark on how dangerous it must be. I tell them to watch local their evening news and tell me how many shootings occurred.
Americans proudly shouting down different perspectives, even when qualified repeatedly as ‘not condemnation, simply seen from an outsiders view’, and specifically requested by the OP ‘those not living in the US’. Who could have predicted the thread would take such a turn?
Congratulations on shutting down any discussion, and demonstrating to everyone exactly why this board isn’t really anything but American centric! Well done indeed!
Is there much chance of needing a high-capacity gun for self-defence, or is it an excuse to own a powerful weapon? I’m asking honestly (not snarkily) because it’s hard to imagine a criminal wanting to get shot at once, let alone getting into a firefight.
Agent Foxtrot, American
ETA: Just to be clear, not every American thinks this way. Some of us would rather scrap the whole government and start fresh with a new one, maybe imitating Iceland’s government before they massively deregulated business.
Well to put it bluntly they want access to guns. Oh you can get them in Mexico they are not illegal per se, but unless you are rich or well connected (often go hand in hand) you ain’t getting one. Maybe your family still owns one from when they were not as highly regulated back in the 50’ early 60’s before the goverment cracked down on private ownership in the name of protection because of all the protests going on. But try to use it in self defense and you will most likely go to jail.
Meanwhile the upper class can hire protection services “guys with guns” or carry themselves. The criminal element which used to keep to themselves, but now is attacking more and more innocent people daily have no trouble with getting guns or using them. And before you go into the whole well of course they get them from America. That is such a small percentage. Of course Mexico politicians are going to blame someone else. Not the corrupt people who conveniently lose military shipments,etc. With all the grenading going on over there I’m sure they have some sort better supply line than straw buyers here,but that is for another thread. With that derail out of the way. A lot of people favor being able to get access to guns for defense. It was not this way a few years ago.
The tide changed when the robberies and kidnapping of ordinary citizens shot up. Home invasions and shop shakedowns in broad daylight and knowing the cops ain’t coming or are probably in on it has a way of changing a viewpoint. I can only speak for Monterrey, but since the narcos started hiring poor kids with no other options besides washing windshields (tell me how many you see nowadays there) no fucks are given now. Basically everyone is armed military, police (corrupt), gangs, except the general populace which makes for easy marks. Well they don’t want to be so easy anymore.
Forgot to say with regards in how they view American gun laws and control debate, they want similar ones and don’t believe we should give up the rights we have now. They see what happened to them defacto disarmament of the populace under the guise of the greater good. Like I said sentiments were different in the 80’s and 90’s when the only folks getting blasted where narcos fighting over turf. Back then mentioning you owned a gun back here in the States led to questions of “Why?” now it’s “Why can’t I get one?”
OK, this isn’t me shouting down someone’s opinion. I thank DrumBum for his (her?) perspective. I will note that Angola’s murder rate seems to be a great deal higher than America’s. But the numbers I can find for Angola seem to date back to 2008. Has there been a dramatic drop in violent crime in the past couple of years? I say this with genuine curiosity because I don’t know that much about Angola. I’m not trying to prove some jingoistic political point.
Your bullet has hit the heart of the problem IMO. We love, love, love vigilantly justice, the bloodier the better as long as it includes a good tagline at the end. It’s the cornerstone of Hollywood movies. That love both comforts us and scares us, depending on which side we imagine ourselves on in a given situation.
Dear sir, even though you seem to be an American, and the OP does not ask for your opinion at all, I would enjoy to hear your perspective. However all your posts are simply attacks on other people opinions, or inane arguments over the minutia of this very thread!. WTF? Simply calling someones post ignorant and running away without even making a counter argument, especially in the condescending way you did with mine, is quite revealing of your character. I am embarassed for you.
Perhaps you misconstrued my statement and think I am somehow anti-gun?Rest assured I am well armed myself and do believe it is a basic right to own a firearm(s) for pleasure, collecting, hunting, defence or whatever. I couldnt care less about the reason honestly. As my first post alluded to, America is a large and very complex country wiith many social and justice related problems which despite your apparent insistence, ALL play a role in the incidence of gun violence in America.It is not meant to debase or slander your dear homeland as these conditions exist in varying degrees whereever you go in the world. If you can not agree to this on some level then you sir must be the IGNORANT one. Warmest regards
There isn’t much chance of needing ANY kind of gun for self-defense. However, if one is needed, the type and capacity of gun to be used is not something that pro-gun advocates want the government deciding for them.
Maybe that’s how it looks from the outside? Yeah it’s going to be exaggerated, because everyone’s only looking at the differences, not the similarities.
Actually, I reckon the majority of Brits would chuckle and think “Huh? That’s what they think life’s like here? hehehe” and move on. A few would post something ‘in character’ about how hard it is to find the right shade of black for their new top hat, or something about the uppity colonials, just to play along.
From this outsider’s opinion, that’s what it looks like - I hear a lot of talk from the US about their rights, but almost no talk about their concurrent responsibilities. I don’t think you can have one without the other; I think they are two sides of the same coin when you’re trying to have a non-barbaric society.
The Second Amendment is the worst damn thing our founders ever wrote. It’s worded just poorly enough that we can argue endlessly about what the Hell it’s getting at.
If it said, “People can have whatever deadly weapons they want, whenever, end of discussion,” that would have been so, so much better. Then the Something-or-otherth Amendment would be there to say, “Whoa, nevermind, let’s be a little more clear.” Or maybe not, and we’d all just practice mutually-assured-destruction all the time. Everybody gets a dirty bomb!
But they didn’t say that. Why didn’t they say that? They gave us a convoluted sentence with militias and “bear arms.” It lets both sides interpret its meaning and intent wildly and it becomes completely intractable and borderline undiscussable.
I have a lot of sympathy for people who genuinely worry about gun laws because they think the Second Amendment makes them illegal. The Constitution is important not because it’s perfect (Amendments, duh) but because it’s the core of our legal system and it’s the foundational document dilineating the operation and limits of our government.
I have zero sympathy for people who complain that their personal safety is going to be compromised. Your personal safety is already statistically compromised by owning the gun.
You might consider that a problem. Honestly that’s one of the things I love about America.
A couple of years back I was in Paris and this Danish fellow who bummed a cigarette from me said pretty much the exact same thing, and he meant it negatively. But, as I explained to him, I genuinely do favor individual rights over societal obligations. I value freedom very highly. Now, I recognize that there has to be certain limits. Not falsely shouting fire in crowded theater is an example of a limitation of freedom that very few people disagree with. Whether citizens should be allowed to own firearms has less agreement, and I just don’t find that preposterous. I, like many Americans and people from other countries, am very wary about surrendering any type of freedom.
Really? You think the Americans are the ones being condescending in this thread? I’ve witnessed many Americans being condescending on a variety of topics, but we’re not the ones writing “Because I want Americans to know that the rest of us experience a better way. Learn from us DAMMIT!” in this particular thread.
Ah, I think of UHC as a social right. The obligations that go with it are taxes (to pay for it) and submitting to vaccinations/health checks (the horror).
A polite apology? OK you’re definitely a Canadian. I suppose I’m lucky you’re not an American. If you were you would have probably shot me instead of apologizing.
And seriously thank you. After a long day of bulwarking freedom, it’s nice to come home and see that I’m appreciated.
It’s a good idea for a thread. I do like getting an outside perspective. But the idea that Americans shouldn’t be allowed to respond to the comments irked me a bit. I mean, what’s better: an international dialogue with back and forth or a silent one sided scolding?
I suppose I’m lucky you’re not an American. If you were you would have probably shot me instead of apologizing.