Non-pilots: Look! Up in the sky!

Only, some of us look more like an X-Wing fighter pilot. :stuck_out_tongue:

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My late brother was a private pilot and I went up him a number of times, including a RT between Philadelphia and Atlanta. I found it exhilarating. Yes, the instrument panel was complicated (he was not licensed for instrument flying although he had taken lessons and felt perfectly competent), but I imagined you got used to it. The hardest thing I found was understanding the conversations with the control tower (he gave me a headset). He said that you get used to it. About 15 years ago, I sat in the right seat on a charter flight from Saskatoon to Regina (maybe 150 miles) in a 5 seat twin Cessna. Also exhilarating, even though it was a commercial flight.

Yeah, I can see why that would be fun, but still…I’m not sure I could ever justify the cost of GA. When I think of pilots I think about commercial ones; their training, their level of fatigue, etc. I’m fascinated by safety issues. For example…

…highly dangerous for the pilots and passengers, and subject to up to $11 000 in civil penalties from the FAA. There is legislation being pushed to make pointing a laser pointer at aircraft illegal under federal law. But I"m sure you knew that.

How do I answer this? When people wanted to (and did) shut down the local airport, I saw many comments about ‘Rich Boys’ Toys’. It’s a little irksome.

There’s no denying that there are a lot of ‘Rich Boys’ (and Girls) in aviation. I’ve lamented a few times here on the Board that the cost of a new Skyhawk is 20- or 25 times the cost of a new Skyhawk in the '70s. The cost of flying has kept me out of the air this Century.

OTOH, it doesn’t have to be prohibitively expensive. One of my masochistic tendencies is to look at airplanes for sale. Many are affordable, and there was one I’m watching on eBay (which I’m not going to bid on) that costs less than my used Prius. Controller.com has Skyhawks starting at $18,000, with many options in the $25,000 to $35,000 range. Most Cessna 150s are running between $15,000 and $25,000. That’s like the cost of one of those Can-Am trikes that are so popular up here. Two- and four-seat Grummans are pretty much in line with their Cessna counterparts, as are Piper Cherokees. Buy-in prices are affordable for most middle-class wage-earners, I think. Major maintenance (which is required) is expensive, but you can fly years between overhauls. Off-the-cuff gas mileage works out to about 15 mpg.

Flying will never be cheap, but I think it’s within reach of most people if they have the right set of priorities.

Oh, I don’t mean it as a “rich boy” thing… it’s just that you’re talking to a 30 year old who is still driving the car she bought at the age of 17 because she can’t justify the cost of getting another one, even though she can afford it! In other words, I’m cheap :wink:

It really is as simple as saying that my interest isn’t great enough to justify the cost for me. I’ve read flight manuals and ground school textbooks and devour accident investigation information, and I want to learn how pilots fly, but I don’t want to be one myself. For me, it’s academic, not a passion, or at least not enough to justify the hobby. Maybe I’m just weird or explaining it badly!

Oh, I didn’t mean you. :wink:

Your post just reminded me.

I’ve lived under the flight pattern of the largest airport (by air movements) for 20 years. It’s fair to say that on a fine day I probably hear a light plane go over about once every 3-4 minutes, so I hardly notice them unless they are going full throttle or unusually low or something, or when I go up the hills and look down on them. I used to play quite a bit of Flight simulator 2004, and since then I check whether the are retractable gear or not.

I love planes, and I’ll go outside and have a look whenever I hear Multiple Wasp engines ( DC-3, Catalina, 6x Harvard/Texan Display Team) or even the occaisionan Merlin (Theres a Mustang that sometimes flies around). There’s so many of these classic planes around that I barely even look up for a single Harvard.

I’ve know a few people with heart problems who flew ultralights (no license or medical requirements, though lessons are strongly recommended) and took pains to stay over rural/wilderness areas. That’s legal, even if not at all encouraged. Yes, a few of them died flying, but didn’t harm anyone on the ground.

Of course, there’s the issue of grief for the surviving friends and family…

The other alternative is to take lessons but never solo. Some people find that satisfying, although it can add substantially to the cost of flying.

In the end, the decision is up to you. Deciding not to fly is also perfectly fine.

I’ll answer as one who has not the slightest interest in flying - if I get on a plane it’s to get me where I need to go, and it’s as big a plane as the commercial airline will put me on. My parents worked for the Air Force and worked on jets and helicopters, they are into planes. They took me to see the Stealth when they were working on it. I was a great big meh. They have friends who fly recreationally and took me up in their planes when I was a kid. I read a book and waited for it to be over. There was nothing to see but sky and fields. I was bored.

If I look up and see one, it’s because I heard it. If I heard it, it was annoying me. I think if you have nothing better to do, go do it somewhere else and stop being loud about it.

This is possibly because I lived across the street from Nellis AFB. Watching the Thuderbirds or whatever they were practice was not cool. It was loud. And annoying. I realise this is not the same as small planes but the principle is - flying for no reason? Ok, whatever floats your boat. Flying for no reason and being loud about it? Shoo. Go away.

Little planes seem to be up there, with their whiny little sewing machine motors, forever, too. Cropdusters, at least, are doing some sort of job or something. Slow little Cessnas that are meandering overhead making noise bug me. I imagine their pilots as self important, because that matches the description of the ones I knew as a kid.

Sorry. If it’s your thing, that’s cool. But if I look up and see a small plane, I’m filled with meh and :rolleyes: and a great abiding need to not have to hear them any more.

VNY, where I used to fly, is currently the busiest General Aviation airport. They have the Condor Squadron, which flies T-6s/SNJs/Harvards, and there’s at least one Mustang based there that I’ve seen. But judging by your nick, I’m guessing you lived by ATL?

This is how I think of it: If someone as you described is going to drop dead of heart failure anyway, isn’t it better to do it in an ultralight than sitting in front of the TV watching a show about other people flying? I’d grieve for a friend who died in a crash, but I’d be grateful he died doing something he loved.

Don’t buy a house near an airport! :stuck_out_tongue: Seriously, I hate it when someone deliberately buys a house near an airport, and then complains about the noise and lobbies to shut it down.

Quite often they are doing some sort of job. For example, many of them are instruction flights. Airline pilots have to start somewhere! A fair number of small business owners use GA airplanes for their businesses. I read an article that mentioned a rural doctor who bought a Robinson R22 (a small, two-seat helicopter) so that he could take off from his home and visit three clinics, spending more time with patients and less time traveling. There are humanitarian flights. Most large cities have airplanes and helicopters doing traffic reporting. Civil Air Patrol flies GA airplanes for search-and-rescue and disaster relief. For example, after the Loma Prieta quake they flew canine search teams to the area, and they fly observers over other disaster areas such as floods. I’ve read a few articles over the years that indicate that flying yourself on trips of up to 400 miles is often faster and more practical than riding an airline. I could go on, but I won’t. Yes, most of my own flying has been ‘poking holes in the sky’. But there are many ‘jobs’ that are being done that aren’t apparent from the ground.

Not to invalidate what you’ve posted. I asked for opinions, and you are not alone in yours. Just pointing out that the ‘meandering Cessna’ you see might actually be doing something useful.

How can you tell if there’s a pilot at your party?
He’ll tell you!

How many pilots does it take to change a light bulb?
One. He holds onto the light bulb and the world turns around him.

:stuck_out_tongue:

I usually think that I wish I had the time, money and constitution to be up there doing the same thing. I live very close to (and right in between) two airports that support GA (Burbank and Van Nuys), so I see these guys all the time.

The OP may recall that I attempted to get over a fear of flying by taking a ride-along in a Pitts Special 2B a few years back where the pilot allowed me to work the stick (and even do a barrel roll!). Although my fear has ultimately crept back over time, my joy from that particular experience has never waned, and I often wish that I’d had the opportunity to do it again. I don’t think I’m a person who is good at tasks that require a lot of attention to detail, unfortunately, but if I were, I’d probably have pursued flying lessons.

As is, I recently picked up a copy of Flight Simulator X just so I can get a little bit of that thrill of being in control of an aircraft. However, the landings that I’ve performed in that game, even on the easiest level, have confirmed that I (along with the rest of humanity) am probably safest remaining a passenger when aloft. :slight_smile:

I find landing in FSX to be harder than in real life. There’s no true depth perception or sense of motion. And that’s with a proper controller; if you’re trying to fly with just the keyboard, that’s even worse.

For the most part, I view pilots as the taxi drivers of the airways. I very much prefer flying in a private jet as a opposed to commercial aircraft due to the delays related to security etc. The various private aircraft pilots I have encountered over many years, have for the most part been very courteous and customer focused.

I think meh when I see a private plane. Been up in a few owned by friends/relatives and just don’t see the point unless you really need to get from A to B in a hurry. My other thought is noisy. I could see how flying might be fun if it wasn’t so damned noisy.

If I think about it at all it is to wonder who’s dollars support all those little airports everywhere. Tax dollars? I flew with my brother-in-law last month. He just walks out, does some checks, hops in and away we go. When we landed I didn’t see anyone collecting fees.

Never used Flight Simulator X, but I did once get the opportunity to “play” with a certified Category D Boeing 777 Full-Flight simulator. I landed that plane on the second try … the first try was a massive overshoot, because when the instructor said “do you see the runway ahead of you?” and I said “yes”, it turned out that I was looking at Boeing Field and he was looking at Sea-Tac!So a quick reset and set-up again, and I landed that bird like a pro :slight_smile:

Then I just flew around in a nighttime/sunrise/thunderstorm/fog/snowstorm and turned off the crash setting and skipped the sim over Puget Sound like a stone on a lake. That was fun.

My next opportunity - in a CRJ200 sim - resulted in my constantly flipping it over and crashing more or less in the vicinity of the runway. I settled for flying it into Mount Royal and giving up!

That’s a relief to know. I found it unplayable with the keyboard and went out and bought myself a semi-decent joystick. And I was able to land an A321 in Naples without killing anyone (despite touching down just short of the runway). :o

Sorry, left out one very important bit of info there… Busiest in New Zealand.:o
Aircraft coming into Ardmore Airportfrom the south fly over me, and traffic towards Auckland international flies over higher up. Classic planes based there

Hop on the net and download some custom aircraft, and scenery if your local area isn’t very detailed. Avsim File library is a great start. They are suprisingly small DLs.

Also, the Lessons in the help are way way way better than most games/simulations

I’ve done thousands (literally) of landings in real airplanes in my life, each one (so far) a success.

I think I have, maybe, successfully landed on a simular twice. Three times, tops.

Just about everyone finds landing on Flight Simulator harder than landing in real life.

In other words, don’t get discourage - keep practicing until you get good at it. Then have the satisfaction of knowing you mastered a skill most real-world pilots haven’t.

I think, “That should be me.”

As one who has zero interest in being a pilot, I do notice the aircrafts that go over my head almost all the time.

Sometimes I think, “I wonder where they’re going?” or, “I wonder what the view is from up there?” And I’d have to say, I do think of the pilot and passengers inside, but it never really crystalizes into anything but a vague, shadowy impression of the many movies and TV shows I’ve seen which showcase airplanes and jets.

However, as a kid, I used to wave at low-flying planes, hoping they could see me, and they’d smile, or respond in someway. But I’m sure I was barely visible from even several hundred feet up.

I love the look of small engine planes. The rivets, the profiles, and to think that something so seemingly mysterious, daunting (and a bit scary) for me, is something that other’s like the OP have mastered as a skill, and love as a passion, hobby or profession. I’m impressed by pilots and the crafts themselves. One of my friends had just received his pilot license, and he’d rent a small two-seater and take me on a few flights over the Detroit area, and one trip from Detroit to Lansing to visit a friend. I was a bit anxious the first time, but it immediately faded, once the headphones were on, and I could hear him so clearly as he would talk with the tower, and other chatter. Those were truly memorable and unique experiences I still think of every so often and treasure.

When I get a peak of the cockpit of a commercial airliner, my mind reals at all the controls, dials and buttons. I wonder how many of those are rarely used, or need close attention. I can’t help but think of some of the CG software I use, though. When I first started using software as such, the GUI looked very intimidating, but once I understood what certain basic sets of icons meant, and how the menus categorized everything logically, it became more open to me, and gradually, I became fluent. I can’t help but wonder if pilots for larger, complicated aircraft feel the same way when they’re first training, like virgin eyes looking upon a language they simply don’t understand, but with time and practice, it all becomes second nature.

Anyway, kudos to you pilots. It’s something I’m impressed by, appreciate, yet have no interest in to seek out as a hobby or a profession. Not because of the daunting appearance of the skill it might take, but because you just have to be made of a certain fabric to have a certain, inborn temerity to get that thing up there, fly it correctly, remain calm and level-headed when you hit unexpected conditions or circumstances, and bring the damn thing back safely to the ground.