Non-smokers: How rampant and how deep is the smoker hate?

In My Humble Opinion
301

I have a lot of distaste for smoking. I live in an apartment building, and my previous neighbor was a smoker, and my current neighbor is a smoker. He’s managed to avoid eviction twice so far, but I’m positive his replacement will also be a smoker, even though only 25% or so of Canadian adults smoke, as my luck with smokers is bad. I once lived in a basement in the house of a landlord who smoked so much my coat smelled of cigarette smoke (people started asking me if I smoke because they could smell it).

I am reminded of how nasty smoking is anytime I find myself in a crowd, because a good chunk of them will smoke, and it’s so crowded I can’t get out of the nasty-smelling cloud of carcinogens and other toxins that will cling to my coat or clothes. I frequently see people smoking in bus shelters and right in front of buildings with signs that say don’t smoke within 30 feet (or whatever the area is) of them. I’ve even seen people smoking in train stations once or twice (there’s never a security guard when you need one).

It’s addictive, it smells nasty, it’s expensive, and worst of all it’s not restricted to the addicted person, since I can’t stop that vital exercise known as breathing. (By contrast, you can’t get drunk off of alcohol fumes.)

302

I think most posters made it very clear they don’t hate smokers?

I don’t hate smokers. It would be impossible, so many people I love smoke. Many smokers have accused me of being mean or “hating” smokers, I think it’s the addiction speaking. A need to quiet the cognitive dissonance of realising they are harming me by stating I’m the big meanie. It’s the claws of addiction lashing out at anything that threatens it.

Smoking is very sad. It affects others more than most other addictions, largely because it’s so accepted. The addiction makes people so inconsiderate that I think on some level it’s impossible for a smoker to truly love and care for others. Smoking is prioritised over the health, safety and comfort of the ones you supposedly care about.

And there is no comparison to this. There is no other situation that comes close. In what other situation would it be acceptable to burn holes in other people flesh, regularly, no big deal? This is reality. I have a cigarette burn scar on my body and my clothes (and work costumes) are full of holes. If I bring it to a smokers attention they burned me, they shrug. I have never, not once, encountered a different reaction.

Is there ever a situation where it is acceptable to poison those you love? Do people take a shit into a little bowl on the dinner table, and it’s ok because it’s outside? Do people smear asbestos into other people’s hair?

Do people frequently leave the dinner table, despite the announcement that another course is just on its way, to go and tinker on their car and come back smelling of oil? “Excuse me, can the soup wait? I want to go and shovel manure for five minutes.”

I have twice in my life simply gone to bed because all my house guests had gone outside to smoke (it was cold and I did not want to be outside) and they had not come back. I can’t think of anything that compares.

All smokers I know are convinced they are very considerate, that they do not do these things. This is addiction and cognitive dissonance speaking. All smokers do these things. “Going away to smoke somewhere else” is not being considerate, it’s still rude. You are poisoning someone you care about less, it’s not admirable. Having to leave a social interaction for your destructive, disgusting problem is still not considerate.

All smokers say they don’t smoke if others are eating and all smokers will at some time light up when I am eating. Because the addiction takes precedent, in that moment. The rest of the time, when the addiction is not nagging them, they can pat themselves on the back for being considerate smokers who never do that. But when the addiction calls nothing else matters.

I put a huge amount of love and care and money into my little garden and it is assaulted by smokers. They take over the space with their poison. Why are ashtrays considered normal? Would you leave a little bowl of shit on the table in my garden? Even if it has a lid, it’s weird. And cigarette butts end up everywhere. Smokers are oblivious to them. And of course the minute the cigarette has been smoked and the addiction quietened, the butt becomes a disgusting, unbearable burden. They must throw it away, this becomes paramount. This nasty, tiny symbol of their shame.

I have a friend who is a scout. He loves nature. Goes on camping trips in the wilderness, leaves no trace. No trace but cigarette butts. And it’s not even up for discussion, he can’t talk about it. The cognitive dissonance would swallow him whole.

I really don’t hate smokers. I do hate smoke, I hate cigarette butts, I hate the habit and I hate how it affects my relationships. I hate having to choose between being near people I care about and breathing. I hate that they can’t care enough about me to change this. But it’s really, really not the same as hating smokers. Smokers hurt me. It doesn’t make me hate them, it makes me sad.

303

My mother smoked cigarettes, which guaranteed that I was never going to touch those damn things. She was one of those enthusiastically gullible tobacco consumers, arguing that there was no evidence it ever hurt anyone. She ended up suffering from a vascular dementia towards the end of her life that her doctors say was probably caused (or at least made worse) by smoking.

Growing up in blue collar West Virginia, most of my friends smoked, and non-smokers were just expected to put up with it. I had friends get miffed when I asked them to step outside my own damn apartment to light up. So yeah, I pretty much hated smoking, and some of that may have spilled over to the smokers themselves, at least the obnoxious ones.

When I started my first post-college job in the mid-1980s, smoking was still pretty much permitted in most offices. But that was already changing, and over the next decade or two, smoking became more and more marginalized and confined. A big breakthrough here in Maryland was when they banned it in bars, I think around 2005 or so.

The less I had to put up with it, the less I hated it when I had to. In fact, when I went to places like Mississippi and Tennessee where it was more tolerated, I actually found the smell in casinos and bars kind of nostalgic.

Back when I was young and single, I was very up-front about smoking being a deal-breaker in a girlfriend. I had quite a few blind dates with smokers who seemed really ticked off at my “close-minded” attitude. It’s easy to forget how successful the tobacco industry campaigns were. You can do a lot of brainwashing with staggering PR budgets and an addicted customer base.

The public attitude on smoking is one area of American life that is indisputably better than it used to be.

304

I hate smoking with a passion. I also admit that I think less of smokers, it’s probably my most conscious prejudice. But it doesn’t really cross the line into hate. Some of my best friends have been smokers!:slight_smile:

Part of it is that I just don’t get it. I understand how people can enjoy smoking, what I can’t understand is why “oh my God, I have to have a cigarette right here, right now! I can’t wait until I can smoke privately, I MUST do it here or I will just die!” That’s a mental problem and one should seek treatment. I don’t see pot smokers having to light up anywhere and everywhere.

305

you sound like puritanical self-righteous Big Mother–do you also want to punish people who buy candy or junk food? Don’t exercise/ Don’t eat vegetables? Drinkers? Cleveland Clinic here does not hire smokers (they even test employees), and insurance companies have punitive financial penalties for being smokers. Are you aware that Medicare is a SELF-PAID insurance program? Note that the Gov’t at all levels will never ban smoking altogether due to outrageous tax revenue they generate. Also, the so-called “health costs” of smoking is questionable; if I have diabetes in my family, the reason I have ore medical needs is not related to my smoking.

306

more than water bottles, fast food wrappers, etc. which cause just as much litter? In many case, there are no trash cans available.

307

I quit smoking a little over ten years ago. It bothers me to see people so hardened against smokers; it’s an addiction in the worst sense of the word. Have a little compassion. Staying away from cigarettes feels just like holding your breath. When they say they “need” a smoke break, they’re not just whistling Dixie.

I still have trouble with anxiety and social awkwardness which was very nicely handled by nicotine and cigarette breaks. And no, psychiatry doesn’t have a better option to offer me; I’ve tried’em.

Work stress is a lot harder without smoking too. The smoking spot is a regular support group for those who use it. Smokers gossip, yes, but they also talk through work problems in a very candid way that you just don’t get with non-smoking co-workers.

A vaper in the subway ticked me off a few months back. He was just standing there on the entry to the platform with an enormous cloud around his head. When I spoke up, he argued that it doesn’t smell bad, and it’s not “full of poison” like cigarette smoke, so he wasn’t hurting anybody.

I explained that it contains nicotine, and trace amounts can feed my cravings and get them started again. To his credit, he clearly hadn’t thought of that, and was chagrined. But yeah, I am very much against vaping anywhere except in the smoking zones.

308

Similarly, sometimes people try to use the argument that overeating a lot of junk food is bad for your health too, but I’m not going to get secondhand fat by standing next to an overweight person.

309

Recently in the news, I’ve been reading that cigarette butts outstrip any other kind of littering by a long way. That makes a lot of sense, because I think smokers who wouldn’t litter anything else, do litter cigarette butts.

I don’t think I have any friends who would drop a plastic wrapper on the ground. I don’t know any smokers who don’t drop their cigarette butts. I’ve *heard of * one person who collects their cigarette butts to dispose of properly. Any normal person holding a plastic wrapper can hold onto it until they find a bin. Smokers can’t hold onto their cigarette butts because as soon as their craving is satisfied they see how disgusting the thing is and need to get rid of it.

As I said in my post, I have a friend who is a scout. He loves nature and when he goes camping he makes sure to leave no trace. No trace except cigarette butts. And he can’t talk about it, I think the cognitive dissonance hurts too much.

If a friend were to drop a plastic wrapper I would feel comfortable saying something. Not in a million years would I say something to a smoker dropping a cigarette butt. I would lose all my friends immediately.

310

It’s your addiction, so at least have the courtesy to carry a small bag or tin to put your butts in.

312

People who overeat or drink to excess aren’t in the habit of throwing up their food into my mouth, causing me to gain weight. Unless the food or drink is especially pungent I don’t have to smell it constantly. Smokers stink, and they endanger my health.

313

I don’t hate smokers, but I will not hang out with them when they smoke. Not one bit.

I’m taken, but I would never be with a smoker romantically.

And when I find out somebody I know smokes, I get… disappointed? My estimation of them drops a little bit.

Is it hate? I don’t know. But if I said similar things about a black person I’m sure I would be called a racist.

314

I’m not a fan of their passive-aggressive bullshit around smoking being banned in buildings. If it’s not snowing or raining, there’s zero need for them to stand just outside doorways to smoke. They’re obviously only doing it there to be obnoxious.

If 15% of babies were born with cigarettes in their mouths you might have a reason to feel guilty. But they’re not - being a smoker is a choice and one’s race isn’t, so they’re not comparable.

315

While I have sympathy for this problem, it seems like a problem that shouldn’t be considered normal by society. Or catered to by society. If a person has to plan their life around being able to get a cigarette at least once every four hours or less, that’s a significant impact on their life. Makes it hard to go to movies, take flights, and trains and buses over long distances would almost certainly have to be out, although I do see smokers do it(and suffer very visibly, asking every stop “Is this a smoking stop?”)

With any other drug that people can’t just use when they are at home or out at places where others are doing it(such as bars), the need to use it at all hours of the day is considered a serious problem. The idea that nicotine addicts being an exception that we should understand and make allowances for seems to be the wrong approach to me. If you can’t go through your workday without taking more breaks than your co-workers, then you need help before being in the workforce.

316

Libertarians believe that things that hurt others is the only good reason to make a law. Since smokers murder 50000 non-smokers a year, then many anti smoking regulations are justified.

317

You are guilty of assisting in the murder of 50000 non-smokers. And it is not legal everywhere at all times.

318

…*also want to punish people who buy candy or junk food? Don’t exercise/ Don’t eat vegetables? *=they dont murder 50000 non-smokers a year.

319

No, it’s laziness, not obnoxiousness. Also, buildings usually provide a wind break, which makes it both more comfortable and easier to light up.

Maybe, just maybe, the threat of spending years in jail for possession has something to do with that.

You don’t hate us, you just don’t think we’re human enough to be capable of love or caring for others? That’s some mighty big dehumanizing going on. I’d honestly rather be hated than not even considered human. That’s probably the real reason why “many” smokers consider you mean, not their addiction.

320

The post of fedman has been answered brilliantly by other people. I have yet to have a junk food addict ask me if I have a candy bar, but at least once a week I’m asked if I have a cigarette or a match. Candy eaters do not rub chocolate on my face, but smokers think nothing of blowing toxic smoke into it. Candy eaters do not make much noise, but smokers have to hack their guts out. The last time I told one to stop making so much noise, she informed me “It’s normal for me to do this.” NORMAL? Bullshit.

321

One thing I find fascinating in these threads is how differently they read if you replace the word ‘smoking’ with ‘recreational drug use’. Smokers don’t like to call it that, but that’s what smoking up actually entails. If someone insisted that buildings should put in sharps containers for heroin users and provide a shooting up area that people can easily get to on break, they’d be called crazy, but smoking areas and ashtrays are considered normal features in a lot of places.

If you’re going to engage in recreational drug use somewhere, then it’s your job to clean up after the drug use. If there’s no trash cans, bring a trash bag, or put the butt in your pocket and take it with you. Also, one of the problems with butts is that people who fastidiously clean up fast food wrappers, water bottles, and the like will toss butts without a second thought. I used to do it when I smoked, and it boggles my mind that it somehow seemed OK to me.

This actually highlights a core problem with Libertarianism in practice; things like littering and air pollution obviously cause significant harm, but Libertarians often object to laws against them as infringement on personal freedom. The non-aggression principle apparently only applies to something as blatant as a punch in the face; if you cover me with foul-smelling smoke that leads me to cough, or throw plastic cylinders in my yard, I’m being oppressive if I try to get you to stop.

Incidentally, that’s actually what motivated me to quit smoking. I realized how much I was having to plan my life around a ‘casual’ habit and decided that I was in charge of my free time, not nicotine.