Hi all
We got talking, in the typically christmasy way of our family, and the conversation naturally turned to hangings.
Eventually, a question was asked about the elaborate knot used for nooses. The open loop, and 13 (I think) wraps style.
Where and why did this originate? Obviously, just a stout rope, and a well tied loop knot would work… why the fancy tie job?
Regards,
And season’s greetings!
One of my weird accomplishments is being able to tie a noose. I am sure I did not learn that in the Boy Scouts, but can’t recall where I did learn.
Anyway, the purpose of the big knot (13 loops is traditional, but not necessary), is to snap the spinal cord in the neck when the body drops. It is a bit complicated, and a good hangman (hangpereson?) figures out the body weight and the length of the drop to assure an instant death.
Otherwise, the victim will drop and endure a painful time being strangled.
Isn’t science wonderful? BTW, don’t try this at home, kids.
The purpose of the knot is to allow smooth movement of the free end of the rope through the knot, something you don’t get with an ordinary slipknot. Go on, tie a slipknot in a handy piece of rope, or usb cable, or your shoelace. See how the free end bends as it passes through the knot? That impedes its progress and slows the tightening of the knot too much.
I have heard, but do not know, that a hangman’s knot will slip tight but cannot be loosened without considerable effort, in effect it “locks” in the tightened position. An ordinary slip knot will slip either way…presumably if a person survived the drop and had hands free they could pull themselves up by the rope, slip the knot back and escape or possibly be freed quickly by an accomplice.
SS
No, the knot doesn’t lock. In fact, unlike other knots that tighten the more you pull on them, the noose doesn’t change much owing to the location of the actual “tangled” part that holds the thing together.
13 loops sounds superstitious, but it does ensure a tall, rigid coil that will run from the base of the neck to the top of the head. When the loop tightens, it pulls the throat in one direction and the coil forces the head in the opposite direction. snap-ola A noose without the coils is no better than a slip knot which only tightens & strangles.
Ignorance fought my friends, thank you
No need to hang around here anymore…
Regards
FML
He’s got it.
HERE’s the formula.
where the Hangman’s knot is covered in some detail. Rather than retype all the text, I searched for a fragment and found this excerpt in the alt.folklore.urban archives from 1994. (The internet’s not written in pencil, Mark. It’s written in ink.)
According to the author, eight was the standard for the number of loops:
It is sometimes contended that there should be nine turns to the Noose, so that “even if a man has as many lives as a cat, there shall be a full turn for each one of them,” and I have heard thirteen turns urged as the proper number on the assumption that there is some connection between bad luck and being hanged.
However, I learned the knot as it is pictured here, with only eight turns, and I have found the preponderance of authority in favor of eight turns only. In Chapter 2 the practical use of the knot is discussed under “Hangman.”
And make the rope too long and… POP! Off with his head.
Sorry to bring back a thread, but I had to comment on this. Britain didn’t use a coiled rope at all. Rather, the end of the rope was threaded through a brass eyelet. Took a while to find a picture of this, but eventually managed. The cause of the death was the same: breaking of the neck, and not strangulation. Wouldn’t the measured drop be more important than anything else?
Fascinating–that looks like it was made for a high volume production.
Jeez, I wonder ever why?
I learned the 13-coil noose knot in Stagecraft. No, I have no idea why we learned to tie proper nooses in a theatre class, but there it is. I just checked on my shoelace and I can still do it. I’m sure it will come in handy for something… :rolleyes:
I have heard the explanation about the coil being important somehow to the snapping of the neck (specifically, separating C1 from C2, if I recall). However I don’t see how it follows that a fatter coil would do this job better than no coil. I would classify this as myth until scientifically verified.
That would make an interesting Myth Busters episode.
Jamie: Hey Adam, I need you to help me test this…
“Some” connection?
I learned it in Boy Scouts; its pretty much the same knot you use to secure a fishhook with.
I drove around with them on my rear view mirror for years.
I’ve forgotten where I learned it but I used to be fairly proficient at it; haven’t tied one in years.
