North Carolina's HB 2 and the non-repeal

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

News stories are reporting that the Bathroom Bill is poised to be repealed. However, the devil’s in the details:

The compromise was detailed by the state’s top Republican lawmakers, who have long supported the so-called “bathroom bill,” and endorsed by the state’s Democratic governor, who has been a staunch opponent of that measure. But the deal, which also included a three-year ban on local governments enacting nondiscrimination ordinances, was quickly pilloried by gay rights groups who argued that the compromise fell short, and it was not clear whether this agreement would get the support needed to pass Thursday before a deadline the NCAA has set demanding changes.

Everyone I know with skin in the game, from trans friends to LGBTQ activists to the NC ACLU, oppose this compromise as a kissin cousin of Indiana’s infamous “freedom to discriminate” bill.

I’m inclined to agree with them, but this bill raises an important question: at what point is it acceptable to compromise on human rights?

[Skammer]

I agree, I don’t see how this is an acceptable compromise.

1. On the HB2 supporter’s side, they get the prohibition on nondiscrimination ordinances for three years. So Charlotte’s nondiscrimination ordinance remains overturned (I understand), and no other cities can pass similar laws. What they lose is a law on the books requiring transgendered people to use the bathroom of the sex on their birth certificate, which was unenforceable anyway. And they get to tell the NCAA and other organizations and companies that they no longer codify discrimination.

2. HB2 foes get that deplorable law off the books, but since that law wasn’t (and couldn’t be) enforced, the win is only symbolic. Meanwhile, they’ve given up any nondiscrimination protections at the local level for three years, and the pressure of outside boycotts on the state is lifted. From a practical standpoint, they’re no better off, and they’ve let the HB2 supporters off the hook with a win.

If I understand the situation correctly, I hope this “compromise” fails.

[HumbleThinker]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

News stories are reporting that the Bathroom Bill is poised to be repealed. However, the devil’s in the details:

Everyone I know with skin in the game, from trans friends to LGBTQ activists to the NC ACLU, oppose this compromise as a kissin cousin of Indiana’s infamous “freedom to discriminate” bill.

I’m inclined to agree with them, but this bill raises an important question: at what point is it acceptable to compromise on human rights?

It all depends on what goal you’re hoping for. If you’re focused on killing a specific bill, then you may some compromise acceptable and gamble that that compromise will not be harmful to you down the road. If you have more long-term or idealistic goals in mind, then these sorts of compromises may be akin to a compromise that bans someone from shooting you but says that it is ok to just punch you if they want.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

I suspect the Democratic Governor Cooper has agreed to this compromise for three reasons:

1. He wants something that will keep NCAA in town (as one of my Facebook friends said, we may be in the Bible Belt, but our true religion is college basketball).
2. Politically, he worries that if he opposes this bill Republicans will make hay out of his intransigence and extremism; given his razor-thin victory and the extreme gerrymandering of the GA, he figures he can’t afford to lose support, and Republicans have outmaneuvered him on optics, even if the bill is a load of bullshit.
3. Ideologically, he just doesn’t prioritize trans folk.

[de_facto_lies]

What utterly blows my mind about this whole ordeal is that more time is spent on discussing who should be allowed in what public restroom, than most people spend in public restrooms their entire life. I’m not sure about anyone else but when I use a public bathroom I don’t even want to look down at the floor let alone the people around me.

walk in, do your business, walk out. Do not look left, do not look right, do not pass GO and collect $200. just get in and get out.

On the discussion of the repeal this compromise sells short the efforts of everyone fighting for the basic human dignity and rights of others. The only reason its even being considered is because of the NCAA pressure. They want the NCAA in town and quite frankly the NCAA wants to be in town. there are about 8 prominent college basketball programs within and a close proximity to North Carolina, it makes travel and schedule in the tournaments easier. Still the NCAA should look at the ground of the repeal and the actual devil in the details and see that it is nothing more than hiding the stick behind your back when your mother turns to yell at you for jabbing your sister.

[DSYoungEsq]

I find the “repeal” “compromise” to be extremely cynical attempt to get the NCAA and others to return to NC. I reject the whole idea of it. But, then, I’m a mile the other side of the border, so I suppose I’m glad it doesn’t apply to me.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@DSYoungEsq

I find the “repeal” “compromise” to be extremely cynical attempt to get the NCAA and others to return to NC. I reject the whole idea of it. But, then, I’m a mile the other side of the border, so I suppose I’m glad it doesn’t apply to me.

That’s how I’m reading it, too: Cooper wants to respect trans rights, but he wants the NCAA back more, so he’s going along with this charade to get what’s more important to him.

The NCGA wants the NCAA back, but they want to trample trans rights more, so they offer this bill in a halfhearted attempt to have their cake and eat it too.

[Bricker]

Looks like it passed.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Bricker

Looks like it passed.

Yup.

[ISiddiqui]

@Skammer

I agree, I don’t see how this is an acceptable compromise.

1. On the HB2 supporter’s side, they get the prohibition on nondiscrimination ordinances for three years. So Charlotte’s nondiscrimination ordinance remains overturned (I understand), and no other cities can pass similar laws. What they lose is a law on the books requiring transgendered people to use the bathroom of the sex on their birth certificate, which was unenforceable anyway. And they get to tell the NCAA and other organizations and companies that they no longer codify discrimination.

2. HB2 foes get that deplorable law off the books, but since that law wasn’t (and couldn’t be) enforced, the win is only symbolic. Meanwhile, they’ve given up any nondiscrimination protections at the local level for three years, and the pressure of outside boycotts on the state is lifted. From a practical standpoint, they’re no better off, and they’ve let the HB2 supporters off the hook with a win.

If I understand the situation correctly, I hope this “compromise” fails.

I’d argue there should be an addition to #2. HB2 foes get the prohibition on local nondiscrimination ordinances lifted after 3 years, while HB2 placed that prohibition indefinitely. So the bathroom aspect dies and the local nondiscrimination ordinances go away after 3 years.

[k9bfriender]

@ISiddiqui

I’d argue there should be an addition to #2. HB2 foes get the prohibition on local nondiscrimination ordinances lifted after 3 years, while HB2 placed that prohibition indefinitely. So the bathroom aspect dies and the local nondiscrimination ordinances go away after 3 years.

Just in time for an election cycle.

[Miller]

@ISiddiqui

I’d argue there should be an addition to #2. HB2 foes get the prohibition on local nondiscrimination ordinances lifted after 3 years, while HB2 placed that prohibition indefinitely. So the bathroom aspect dies and the local nondiscrimination ordinances go away after 3 years.

Correction: in three years, we get to fight this battle all over again. Meanwhile, bigots in NC get three years to discriminate freely against gay people.

This is a loss on every front, and a stab in the back from Cooper, who got a lot of mileage out of pretending to be an LGBT ally during his run for governor. I hope the NCAA (among other boycotters) doesn’t fall for it, but “hope” isn’t something I’ve got a deep stock of right now.

[Skammer]

Yep, this is a very disappointing move from Cooper. On the other hand, if he hadn’t gone along with it, he would have been blamed for keeping HB2 in effect when he had the offer to repeal it. So they had him cornered. Still, hard not to see it as a betrayal of the LGBT community.

[not_what_you_d_expect]

I wonder if the NCAA will be okay with this compromise? Sounds like a decision on that is forthcoming?

Anyone know?

[BigT]

@Skammer

Yep, this is a very disappointing move from Cooper. On the other hand, if he hadn’t gone along with it, he would have been blamed for keeping HB2 in effect when he had the offer to repeal it. So they had him cornered. Still, hard not to see it as a betrayal of the LGBT community.

That didn’t happen the last time they tried this compromise. Why would it happen this time?

Now let’s see if the NCAA actually gave a shit about the actual problem, which was that HB2 was discriminatory. I’m gonna guess they don’t. They just didn’t like the bad optics.