I have a conservative Japanese uncle who does adhere to this view. He was rooting for Trump because Trump said he’d stop spending so much money defending other countries. To Japanese conservatives, that’s a good thing, because that would force Japan to build up a proper military of its own.
That’s something I can wrap my head around. I inferred something different from Velocity’s statement.
I’m not getting the whole “Legitimacy” thing. Kim is an evil fuck-stick, but he is a legitimate leader. With nukes I might add.
Treating him as if he weren’t seems unproductive to me.
To pull a quote where jet-lag must have caused a temporary bout of honesty:
*Question>> “You said the last was an add-on and not in the agreement. He gave you his word. If he doesn’t follow through on these things, what are you prepared to do in response and will you lose faith in the process?” *
TRUMP>> "No. I think he will do it. I really believe it. It was really the engine testing site in addition to all of the other things that they agreed to do. They have a powerful engine testing site. Again, we’re able to see because of the heat it emits. I’m able to — I’m very happy with those two points. The two points you mentioned. You may be referring to the thing not in. The engine testing site. I think he will do these things. I may be wrong. I may stand before you in six months and say, hey, I was wrong. I don’t know I’ll ever admit that. I’ll find some excuse."
I do mean it, 100%. Japan needs to be a totally normalized military nation like everyone else.
And if Obama had met with Kim and made the concessions Trump did last night, conservatives would be howling for his head.
They were howling for his head at the mere mention of Obama being open to talking to North Korea, but when Trump said that’s what he was going to do suddenly they were all cheering him on.
some people are very ticked off the US flag was next to the NK flag on the stage. I thought that was standard display for these kinds of meetings?
On the one hand, Trumpian diplomacy with Kim seems to be sending the message that he does not give two fucks about what happens to South Korea and Japan.
On the other hand, if he wants to be the big tough guy American who stands up to a rising China, he has no choice but to give two fucks – and probably a lot more than that. All along, this is precisely why China has tolerated North Korea. Just as Russia is trying to break the American-led hegemony in Western Europe, China has long dreamt of displacing the United States. If the US is seen as losing its value as a bodyguard, then that’s exactly what happens. Japan and South Korea are left to ask: why are you here?
Isn’t it naive to think that Kim would even want prosperity for his people? The minute they get the internet, and see how the rest of the world lives, is when his power is at risk. He would never want that unless his real motive is to break apart his whole system and allow a revolution. Not bloody likely. So what are he really negotiating for? Basically send me money so that I can solidify my power, and I won’t build more nukes (but I really will). My other thought is that he may actually give Trump some short term wins to help get Trump moving and confident. And once Trump starts telling everyone how great he is for finally establishing peace and almost-disarming NK, Kim will gouge him for $billions.
I agree the chances are remote, but they might, because they’ve already demonstrated nuclear capabilities and long-range missile capabilities.
I don’t have a crystal ball, but what I’ve suspected all along is that Kim would seriously consider freezing his program – in exchange for some immediate concessions on sanctions. He doesn’t agree to give up what he already has, but he agrees to stop provocative acts like detonating nukes underground and firing missiles over Japan – in exchange for an end to sanctions. But if Trump asserts that sanctions end first, that’s a non-starter, and Kim goes back to firing his missiles, and he amps up the crazy act. And make no mistake: the escalation would continue until the US agrees to end sanctions, or unless the US initiates a preemptive strike and ends up in one of the nastiest wars in the last 80 years. Those are the choices if things escalate.
“He loves his people.”
He starves them and puts them in prison camps.
Well, not those people. The other ones.
North Korea’s state run News channel just announced that Donald agreed to lift NK sanctions.
It’s a five-sentance article from Reuters. I’ll just post it.
Be sure to scroll down at that link to the previous newsbrief, titled, “Trump says no war games while North Korea negotiates in good faith: Fox interview”.
I hope Mike Pompeo hates his life right now.
I’m wondering how this is being presented to North Koreans. They have all been raised from birth to hate the US with a murderous passion. They’ve been told that they have to be poor and hungry because Dear Leader must have weapons to protect them from the most evil country on earth. Kim can’t just change course and announce that we are all friends now. He has to play it that he is calling the shots and the US is capitulating to him or he will lose the power that he needs to make his people accept that their lives suck. I don’t think Trump will be too happy to see it being presented that way but Kim really has no other choice if he wants to retain control. It’s not like he can suddenly make a brainwashed, uneducated populace into productive members of society who understand how foreign policy works.
aurora maire wrote:
“He has to play it that he is calling the shots and the US is capitulating to him…”
No need to “play” anything there — the facts speak for themselves.
“It’s not like he can suddenly make a brainwashed, uneducated populace into productive members of society who understand how foreign policy works.”
It’s not Kim’s job to educate Americans. 
Trump says there is nothing to worry about from North Korea:
“I hold in my hand a piece of paper …”
“Peace for our time”
We’ll see. Any details about timelines, processes, inspectors etc. You know the usual things that every other agreement like this comes with.
Here’s a pretty good take from Slate: “Trump isn’t trying to win over North Korea’s leader. He’s using him to win over you.”