If that is not disturbing: check out this poster. The obvious question is what can we do? [sub]In hindsight, and at the time actually, I think referring to North Korea in a major address as part of an “Axis of Evil” was a bad idea, for one thing.[/sub]
Now, as always, the thing takes on a life of its own. Keeping in mind that the Korean Peninsula is the most militarized area in the world. This is not some creation by Bush, Clinton had problems with North Korea also.
Well, solve this one. Blame assignment does not count.
Unfortunately the best resolution to this might be outright bribery. It certainly seems that is what N. Korea is angling for. The reactor won’t significantly help them if it is running or not. N. Korea is trying to twist the arm of the US into getting its fuel shipments and whatnot reinstated. I don’t blame the Shrub administration from not being thrilled with this sort of diplomacy but the otehr options seem worse and frankly the administration seems to be recognizing that and slowly re-entering talks with N. Korea.
My worry isn’t so much that N. Korea has nukes itself (although I don’t like the idea). It is my worry that they will gleefully sell some to people we REALLY don’t want to have them.
Going to war with N. Korea isn’t really in the cards. China would be very pissed to see US troops in N. Korea. S. Korea would be pissed because last I heard there were 10,000 artillery pieces that could range on the capital Seoul and lay down 500,000 per hour! You don’t need a nuke with that kind of firepower. Sure the US would likely blow them all up eventually but no way could they do so before Seoul was horribly damaged. N. Korea also already possess missiles that can reach Japan and would likely fling a few that way thus not thrilling the Japanese overly much.
One vote for appeasement. Not a great long-term solution, but it beats nukes falling on Seoul and Tokyo.
I especially agree with the point about North Korea supplying all the bad actors in the world with weapons. That is the safest way to strike, “Hey, you shoot it, I’ll stand over here and watch.”
I’m not so sure I am ‘voting’ for appeasment. Frankly I hate the idea and don’t blame Bush for wanting to tell N. Korea to take a hike with that kind of crap. Unfortunately the world has a long history of using appeasement to avoid stickier issues so regimes have good reason to think it’ll work for them.
Honestly I feel if it wasn’t for China the North Koreans would be staring down an American gun barrel as well. China already set the precedent of using Chinese troops to attack the US and defend what eventually became North Korea…I don’t see the Chinese changing that stance. I don’t think China is overly thrilled with its belligerent little neighbor but I think China would be less thrilled with a united, democratic Korean peninsula allied with the US.
My real wish is that China stomps on N. Korea (more figuratively than literally) and reigns them in. If China wants to call that their backyard then they need to take care of their own business. China may delight in anything that causes the US problems but the stuff N. Korea is up to is liable to find a way to come back and haunt China as well (once nukes start proliferating China my find a few countries they’d rather not see have nukes get them). I think it is in China’s best interest to quietly tell NK to pipe down.
Let me assume my alter ego, [Pseudo Great Military Philosopher] If you must buy time to avoid great loss, you may have to slake your enemy’s thirst. [/PGMP]
I’m with you, we are fresh out of good military options - that I am aware of. Diplomacy seems like a dead end - so far as I know. Buying them to avoid a huge war which might go nuclear near one of the most bustling cities in Asia, or get the most bustling nuked, seems like a good short-term plan until using peaceful means we can get a sane government installed in North Korea. The problem with the NK hardline communist regime (sort of a monarchy also) is you can’t rely on an election to change the government. So we have to hope Kim Jong Il does not decide to roll the dice.
I have no quarrel with appeasment, except that it doesn’t solve anything. There’s no reason why North Korea can’t continue to secretly build a nuclear arsenal and ICBMs even while accepting our bribes. They’ve been doing just that. Furthermore, they can sell their weapons to terrorists or anyone else, while accepting our bribes.
I don’t know the answer. If we push the problem off long enough, maybe President Hillary will know what to do…
This probably wasn’t the best thought out plan. IIRC from a recent report on NPR North Korea was brought into Bush’s ‘Axis of Evil’ because they did not want the ‘Axis’ to include only Muslim countries thus pissing them all off more than they already are.
Maybe Bush should have left out NK, and instead named Iran, Iraq and Libya the MUSLIM MENACE! or the ISLAMS OF INIQUITY!
Seriously, with or without Bush’s name-calling, North Korea is a a totalitarian country, ruled by what I would consider an insane despot. It was secretly building nuclear weapons and a huge military. It was a major and growing threat to its region.
He could have mentioned the list of terror sponsoring nations that is kept at the State Department.
Or, as december noted he could have discussed the “MUSLIM CONQUERORS WHO MUST BE REPELLED FROM CRISTENDOM, THE HORSES AWAIT!”
I’m from the nice in public get what you want through back channels school of dealing with dictators. North Korea is such a large and persistent threat - has been since 1950 - we should handle it with a consistent policy over time so as not to upset whichever crazed madman is in charge.
I’d say you’re pretty spot on. People forget that Beijing is within range of N. Korean missles.
the US is China’s largest trading partner, and S. Korea is also an important trading partner, while N. Korea doesn’t have much to offer.
As far as laundering N. Korean gulag made goods through China. It is perfectly feasible. Is this done with the implicit or explicit consent of the Chinese Politboro - I highly doubt it.
I think we are going to have to Tomahawk that reactor sooner than later! If we were voting I’d have to vote for sooner. These guys are dissing us left and right with this nuclear intimidation rhetoric.
I don’t see how this can be avoided.
Are they looking for a military response?
That the US could blow-up the reactor is without a doubt. Unfortunately that would almost certainly result in a nice cloud of fallout that might very well travel over Seoul or Japan. Neither country would be pleased at this.
Also, if the US did such a thing, NK may very well retaliate by attacking South Korea (IIRC they may have even said as much). Again recall that NK has 10,000 artillery pieces that can hit Seoul with 500,000 shells an hour. With that kind of firepower you don’t really need to nuke Seoul as the effect of a few hours of bombardment would be largely the same sans nuclear fallout.
NB: This is a theory, it’s not fact, and I’m quoting it for interest’s sake, not necessarily because I believe it personally. That said, I think China’s role in the crisis generally has been underestimated.