I’m afraid I’m gonna have to disagree with you, Honesty, but I promise to be civil about it.
I myself had no difficulty in math classes. I minored in math, as a matter of fact. Do I use anything higher than advanced algebra in my day-to-day work? Rarely.
That being said, the idea (as others have noted above) is to give you the broadest education possible so that in any field you might get into, however tangential it is to your major, you will find yourself equipped to deal with the requirements.
I do understand your frustration, though. I was required to take a Mass Communications course in college. I was not a journalism major. I was not pursuing a major which required writing or reporting in any fashion. But my course list required a Mass Comm class, so I couldn’t get out of taking one. I found it very difficult and it took up a disproportionate amount of my attention. At the time I was extremely annoyed. But I have to admit that I learned a few useful things in the process. My advice is to put up with it and learn as much as you are able. You might just end up needing some piece of it down the road.
Not if you’re not mathematically inclined, it isn’t. The concept of limits can be extremely difficult for some people.
I’m not aware of anything that can’t just be brushed under the rug. Besides, I’m advocating a statistical literacy class, not a traditional stat class. You don’t need the underlying math, you just need to know enough to realize an ad is full of it.
Math is one of my absolute worst subjects. But I’m minoring in it, so I have opinions from both sides of this argument.
One of my majors is Computer Science. At my university, there are 3 different “options” for that major. I’m in Option 1, which is the most mathematically intense (and I discovered I only need to take two extra math classes to get a minor, which is why I decided to do it).
I’ve been through: PreCalc, Calulus 1, 2, and 3, and Discrete Mathematics. I need to do (one of) Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, or Probability and Statistics, and two more math electives on top of that.
I finally finished all my Calculus courses. Many times I felt like the odd man out. I’m also a humanities major, because those are the classes that I enjoy and am, well, skilled at. I can pound out an essay in an hour before it’s due and get an A, but I have to work my butt off at math.
And I partially agree with:
Many many many people (including mathematically-challenged me) can understand the Calculus concepts just fine. They’re absolutely simple. But, like every one of my college math profs have said, “It’s not the calculus concepts that everyone gets tripped up on, it’s the algebra. Most people can understand the concepts of multiple integrals and whatnot, but the goddamn algebra is where you make basic mistakes.” Of course there are exceptions to this, but I’ve found that most of my classmates have made algebra-related mistakes, not calculus-related.
Oh, and did I mention that at my university we are NOT allowed to use calculators in our Calc classes? At all? This spring we had questions like:
Talk about math anxiety! My advice is: Math is not useless. If nothing else, it teaches you new ways to think and new ways to look at a (real life) problem and solve it. If I were you, I would start with a basic algebra class. You’ll NEED to have a pretty solid algebra backround for calculus anyway, and a basic course should help diminish the math jitters.
Very true. You also use calculus every time you press the accelerator a little bit and the car speeds up. Or when you open the faucet a little more and the bathtub fills up faster. Life is calculus! Admittedly, I’m a calculus geek, and actually took two more semesters than I was required to take.
Also, as a professional educator, I can give you the formal reason for a broad education. If you only studied subjects you need to perform your intended job, then you are at a trade school, not a University. A University’s job is to educate you, not just train you.
As some one else meantioned algerbra is the biggest thing to learn first. Take a pre-calc class.
Also, the problem you are having with math seems to be one of confidence, not ability. Most complex math problems are a bunch of really simple problems grouped together. The key is knowing the simple steps really well. In other words, knowing the mechainics of manipulating the numbers is very important. For example, I understand the concepts very well but bugger up the mechanics alot so I am doing the basics daily until I know them without thinking about it.
As far as requiring Calc goes I’ll tell you my Dads theory. My Dad, who got a PHD in math with a 4.0 and thinks calc is “kindregarden stuff”, thinks that calc is required as a test. If someone can’t get past calc then they don’t deserve a degree. I don’t know if that is true but it very well could be.
Honesty, while I respect your will to fight taking calc, you are going to lose.
I also think that the purpose of having to take a class such as this is to get your mind thinking in different ways. This is just as valuable a skill as learning a specific field.
Honesty, I really do hate to have to break this to you, but you DO need math in your chosen field. You’re not gonna do well in biology overall without a good solid understanding of population dynamics, chemistry (which you at least need algebra for), and the basic physics of the body. Also, without the analytical thinking skills calc will give you, you’re pretty much hosed in any scientific field.
Find yourself a study buddy in your class. Not necessarily the person with the highest grade in the section, but someone who’s doing well enough they can give you a hand. I really don’t recommend getting a math major (at least not an upper-level one), because they usually have a fairly intuitive understanding of math and that makes it harder for them to help you. You can’t explain intuition to someone else, and it gets really frustrating for everyone involved to try explaining something that seems blindingly obvious to you to someone who just doesn’t get it.
It might help you a little to not look at it as math, but as a science. That’s all calc really is, you know; it’s the language mathematicians use to talk about physics. And all physics is, is the language scientists use to talk about the way the world around us and our own bodies work. For the most part, calc problems can be worked fairly painlessly if you quit thinking, “Oh my God! It’s a huge scary math problem! Time to freak out!”
Look at it more from the view of a logic problem, like those things with the little blocks you cross off. You have a certain set of info, and you need to find a certain other set of info. What can you figure out from the info they gave you? What can you get from combining this new info with the other stuff they gave you? Before you know it, you’ll be on your next problem. You can do this stuff, you just don’t know you can do it yet.
Just how evil is it? What are the available methods of destruction? What is a good cost/performance measure for these various methods? If math is destroyed, what impact will that have on other fields of endeavor?
That’s it? Pretty easy for a minor. I did Calc 1, 2, 3 (DE), Axiomatic Structures, Linear Algebra, Prob and Stats, and Intermediate Stats. All required for my Comp Sci major.
I don’t find Mathis stupid, Of all the Judge shows out there, his is the most realisitic and least theatrical.
Oh you said math is stupid? I disagree, math isn’t stupid , it is just so predictable, ordinary and law abiding. If 2x8 is 16 today, it will be 16 tomorrow and the next day and the next day…
English is the one you have to watch out for. English will flatter, persuade, embrace and enchant you. English will speak to that secret hidden part of you that you thought no one could get to. English will intoxicate you to the point of forsaking all sanity. English will be anything it says it is and defy you to prove otherwise. English is a scoundrel and a rogue.
Even knowing all this, God help me, I love english.
BTW Math was a recommended but not required subject for my Nursing degree. Go figure.
I’m in with those who struggle with math. I can learn it, given enough time and a good instructor, but it’s gone again as soon as I’m no longer actively using it. I’m an English major/theatre minor (currently a junior at UTA)–and I’ve been a secretary/admin assistant since I graduated from high school in '81. I’ve never used anything beyond the math basics in all this time.
I do appreciate the arguments about needing to become educated in a variety of subjects, and have definitely learned things in my core classes that have helped me in my life. That being said, however, I don’t understand why I’m required to take college algebra and statistics or calculus. If I take a remedial math course and a pre-college algebra type course, I will put as much effort into that as others might put into the college algebra-calculus combo and learn as much that will be useful to me. If I’m doing the course and putting in the time, why should that not apply to my degree as much as the more advanced classes do?
How can you major in Biology without knowing at least a little calculus? I’ve only taken one Biology course (not my major, but my school has a very broad science core that everyone must take), but even in that class I used calculus.
How do you do population dynamics without differential equations?
How do you do molecular biology (the biochemistry side) without at least some concept of calculus?
While I can totally understand your dislike of math (I, personally, hate Biology), I am highly suspicious of a Biology major in which you wouldn’t need calculus, not just as a prerequisite, but for an understanding of the material.
My Brother-in-law is a Biology professor at a Large University[sup]tm[/sup]. His research over the years has been largely in game birds: quail, prarie chickens, waterfowl, etc. He has had to answer questions like “How may birds can this square mile of land support”.
This turns out to be quite a problem. There’s calculations to determine the amount of food energy that is in that square mile. There’s calculations to how much energy the bird needs to support its own body temperature. Statistical analysis of existing populations in a test region that are then applied to larger regions.
BTW, to figure out the needed energy for a bird, build a copper bird and cover it with a genuine formerly-on-a-bird birdskin with feathers. Place heating element inside, take the fake bird outside, and find out how much electricity it takes to keep the fake bird at a particular temperature. Average it over all sorts of conditions, convert it to calories.
He does population densities and statistical studies that set levels for hunting permits, population support levels, etc. He’s got a Sun computer in his lab that let’s him run complex statistical analysis packages like SASS and provides a server for his mapping software that lets him tie population statistics to geography.
My point here is that there’s genuine aspects of professional biology that have a lot of math involved. Some of it pretty complex.
The other side of the coin is my old gripe that as an Electical Engineering student I was required to take Psychology, Biology, etc. totalling 20 hours of courses from the “approved” list. Universities do that to create a more well-rounded student.
I see no reason to accept any premise along the lines of “I just can’t do math” or “I’m just no good at math”. The alternative explanation, “I can’t be bothered to make the effort to understand this subject” seems at least equally valid.
Math (or maths, as we say here in England) is essentially the skill of thinking straight and in well-reasoned steps. If you want to study a scientific field, or handle data in a sound and well-reasoned way, then I don’t think expecting some sort of good mathematical skill is a weird stipulation. In fact, I’d say it’s a good idea.
Instead of getting petulant about a perfectly reasonable expectation, you may just as usefully give yourself a hard time for being too darn mentally lazy to understand the most plain and logical of all fields of study. Why waste your time throwing a tantrum and expecting the system to be re-written just to suit your own intellectual disinclination to make an effort? Instead, make the effort and you might get somewhere. Math is beautiful and stunning. It is the key to all the sciences, and to any field involving the handling of meaningful data. If you find it hard, don’t find fault in the subject. Try looking in the mirror.
It might be worth your while to stop by the Office of Services for Students with Disabilities and talk with someone there about being tested for a possible learning disability in connection with mathematics. You may also want to talk with a career counselor about an alternative to teaching high school biology. What are the things about the subject of biology that attract you? Maybe you can find a profession that combines the subjects you are passionate about and that doesn’t require so much math? I know you are not ‘mentally lazy’ as suggested above. Good luck!
