Is it still “groping” if there is no direct physical contact? To my eye, the picture offered in evidence shows a “pantomime” of groping. His left hand is clearly not in contact, but several inches away, as “background” is clearly visible. As to the right hand, the camera angle doesn’t make that clear. However, Sen Franken has his head turned over his right shoulder, a posture that would pull the right arm back. Don’t believe it, try it. Put both of your hands down next to each other, then turn to look back over your shoulder. Your right hand will move away.
Also, how can she be sure she was groped if she claims to have been asleep?
As to pursuit and harassment by Franken…she couldn’t forcefully object? Because Al Franken was so powerful within the USO? Given his political unreliability, I was surprised they let him go in the first place. Bob Hope he was not, though he could have re-used a few of those “haircut bath job” jokes that were so popular at the time.
What? She was afraid of a liberal weenie? (Sorry, Al, you probably could take Trey Gowdy. But Rachel Maddow would kick your ass into next week…)
And finally, a relatively minor note: Al. IIRC, did not serve. But if he managed to make a few hundred war weary soldiers laugh for even a moment…he did far more good for them than he ever could with a weapon.
If she’s accusing a left-winger then of course it does. If the accused is a right winger then it’s the opposite way around. (All else being equal.)
In any event, the part of your post I was disputing was your claim that political affiliation was moot because of “a photo and a contrite accused”. That doesn’t hold, where there’s any relevant ambiguity.
Weinstein maintained real power in Hollywood. Up until very recently there could have been very real and severe consequences for crossing Weinstein. He even reputedly had a private security company working for him to stop would-be accusers.
How is this true of her and Franken? Does Franken have a history of making or ruining careers in Hollywood? Is there evidence he helped or impeded Tweeden’s career in any way? Was she told by her agent she better not cross Franken or else? Did she think Franken would come back and molest her? Does Franken send security forces out to harass her?
By her own account she pushed Franken away when he kissed her and threatened him if he ever did that again. That does not sound like a woman who is afraid of her attacker or in trauma over it.
This is one of those situations in which the right thing to do is also the politically smart thing. How does a long investigation help the Democrats? How does a groper staying in the senate help the Democrats? He should just step down.
Fox News commentators are prepared to tell lies in order to hurt their political opponents. If you haven’t figured that out yet, I don’t know what to tell you.
They are correct. It’s time to show that the Democratic party actually is morally superior to the Republicans. A great political opportunity, if they just take it.
No witnesses? She didn’t tell anyone about it? Oh she did tell some people about it? But not an “authority?”
This isn’t the exception in these sorts of story Whack-a-Mole. This is the norm. If you don’t find this accusation credible then you probably didn’t find Asia Argento’s accusation credible. Or Emily Nestor. Or Lucia Stoller. Emma de Caunes. Gwyneth Paltrow. Katherine Kendall. Léa Seydoux. Angie Everhart.
Weinstein disputes how it all went down. Cosby disputes how it all went down. Takei disputes how it all went down. Again: there isn’t anything unique here.
Are you sure? That right hand sure looks like a grope to me. But lets pretend that it wasn’t a grope. Is that really your defense of the picture? It wasn’t an actual grope, but a pretend grope? That the lack of physical contact (by millimetres) is somehow an acceptable defense of this “tasteless” picture? (And I don’t agree with your characterization that this is a “posed” picture. As you point out Tweeden was asleep. She did not “pose.”)
Irrelevant.
Oh for fucks sakes. It wasn’t fair to ask why Moore’s accusers have come out right before the election, and it isn’t fair to question why Leeann Tweeden (she has a name) has come forward now. If you hadn’t noticed: the last couple of weeks have been an empowering one for women. Women had come out before. And they have been historically generally disbelieved before. But they are being believed just a little bit more now. (Unless they hold the wrong political viewpoint: as this thread demonstrates.) So if anybody is wondering why a women chooses to come forward **now **with historical allegations of sexual harassment or abuse then the only conclusion I can come to is that they must have been in a coma the last month. Because otherwise how on earth can you have missed the sea-change that is happening in society right now?
I for one would have a harder time snickering at them and making jokes about “if they go low, we go high” if they would, but with posters like Thing Fish, elucidator, and Whack-a-Mole, I don’t think there’s much danger of it. I wish you luck in jousting at your windmills though.
I agree with this. In the current post-Weinstein atmosphere it’s pretty apparent that sex harassment accusers are going to get a pretty sympathetic hearing. It makes sense that many people who were reluctant to come forward until now would do so at this point.
I don’t see anything suspicious at all about her timing. It’s not like Franken is in middle of an election. (The notion that this is an indirect way of helping Moore seems very far-fetched, especially as it’s not likely to be effective.) There are many people accusing all sorts of people these days - you can’t go a couple of days without a new accusation. (I think Stallone is the latest.) Most of these people are not even involved in politics.
So far it’s the two incidents I’ve quoted already in this thread (in some cases multiple times) so I won’t quote again, but I expect more incidents to come to light now that the door is open. I’m not really sure why you’re on the defense train for the guy, but it’s looking more and more like it’s going to be the defense train wreck within a week.
One thing I don’t get is all this smack talk about the Republican Party. Is this the same Republican Party whose leaders have called on Moore to drop out of the race, threatened to expel him from the Senate if he gets elected, and said ““He’s obviously not fit to be in the United States Senate, and we’ve looked at all the options to try and prevent that from happening”? Or some other Republican Party?
I hereby state that Banquet Bear molested me fifteen years ago.*
I didn’t tell anyone at the time but so what? That’s the norm.
I am willing to bet Banquet Bear disputes this but then all molesters do.
Banquet Bear should resign from whatever job he’s at. I would have come forward sooner but I was too afraid to. Now I feel emboldened and safe to let the world know.
*That statement is 100% not true. I made it up to make a point.
Apparently though Banquet Bear thinks my accusation should be all that is needed.
Yes I am sure that picture does not show groping. Tweeden cannot say whether she was groped either since she was asleep. Unless someone on the plane testifies that Franken went on to feel Tweeden up there is no evidence she was groped.
This is important because the photo is merely tasteless. Groping her is sexual assault and a crime. Bit of a difference there.
It is relevant in ascertaining how contrite you think Franken is and whether his apology is an admission he committed a crime.
Of course it was fair to ask why Moore’s accusers came forward. Certainly the first one or two. There is always a question implicit in these accusations of far distant past events of why the accuser waited so long.
And as I noted while Moore and Weinstein and Spacey wield sufficient power to be a credible threat to a would-be accuser I am not seeing where Tweeden had reason to fear reprisal of any sort from Franken.
And as for using Tweeden’s name I have done so repeatedly in this thread. Feel free to check.
I don’t care to be lumped in with those two. The photo shows him making a tasteless, offensive and sexist “joke” for which he damn well should be contrite. Whether he is actually touching her may be relevant as to whether it legally constitutes sexual assault, but doesn’t change that fact. I personally don’t think that what’s shown in this picture rises to the level of “let’s demand his immediate resignation from the Senate”, but it’s really, really icky.
And I agree that, whatever other reasons there may be to question the accuser’s credibility, the “well, why did she wait until now to tell anyone?” line is always inappropriate.
As of now, I don’t think that there is sufficient evidence of serious wrongdoing to say that the party leadership should pressure him to resign. If he thinks it best for him to leave rather than become a distraction, I would certainly not try to talk him out of it.
In case you haven’t noticed, there are at least two. Your Father’s Oldsmobile Republicans…Mittens, Jeb(!) and that ilk, and their tormentors, the Batshit Baboons. In that struggle, I favor Romney, though I still would like someone to explain how he’s had the same touch of grey at the temples for fifteen years.
