Now, Al Franken

[RTFirefly]

@Fotheringay-Phipps

“You didn’t read your own link” is sometimes appropriate if your claim is explicit in the link. In this case, it’s just your own speculative interpretation, and your “You didn’t read your own link” is just an attempt to pretend you have something more than that.

It’s also the ‘speculative interpretation’ of the woman it was done to.

If you don’t believe her, why did you start this thread?

[HurricaneDitka]

@Skammer

Dammit, Franken, you were my horse to ride in the 2020 presidential campaign. … But he’s never gonna be president now.

At least two of our last four Presidents have various allegations of sexual harassment against them. I don’t see how this is really an impediment.

[Shodan]

It is an interesting exercise for me to examine both my own reactions, and those of the Dope, when the shoe is on the other foot.

I am mostly reacting to this as I did to many other such allegations - if true, this is serious. If.

Regards,
Shodan

[TriPolar]

@HurricaneDitka

This sounds vaguely like some ancient religious law where multiple women are required to accuse a man before she is to be believed or taken seriously.

It’s something that applies in any case of one person’s word against another. You have to evaluate the credibility of the claim. The difference between that and what you say is that we should not be tipping of the scale one way or the other, there is no reason to assume either party is more credible until we know more.

[Procrustus]

@HurricaneDitka

At least two of our last four Presidents have various allegations of sexual harassment against them. I don’t see how this is really an impediment.

Hopefully the Democratic base will be less willing to overlook this type of conduct.

[Fotheringay-Phipps]

@RTFirefly

It’s also the ‘speculative interpretation’ of the woman it was done to.

That’s just not correct. She doesn’t say anywhere that she thought his intention in that photo was to ridicule and humiliate her, which is your claim. (She says he groped her, which is itself unclear.)

If you don’t believe her, why did you start this thread?

We’re quibbling over exactly how offensive it was here, but while there’s some ambiguity as to exactly what happened, certainly something untoward happened. Even Franken agrees to that.

Worth a thread, I think.

[HurricaneDitka]

@TriPolar

It’s something that applies in any case of one person’s word against another. You have to evaluate the credibility of the claim. The difference between that and what you say is that we should not be tipping of the scale one way or the other, there is no reason to assume either party is more credible until we know more.

So you think the #BelieveWomen crowd is wrong?

[RTFirefly]

@Sicks_Ate

Occurs to me that from here on out there will be MANY men, who otherwise would, choose not to run for office due to harassment/assault skeletons in their closet.

Many of them will be older and established, which it seems to me will result in more younger people running for office on average than has previously been the case.

Or could result in less experienced and accomplished (and less rapey) older men running.

While there are clearly far more men than I would have imagined who have taken advantage of powerful positions to sexually assault and humiliate women (and occasionally men), I doubt even now that such conduct has been anywhere near universal among experienced, accomplished men, regardless of field.

I don’t think we have to worry about having an adequate supply of sufficiently capable people to fill our high political offices, even if every sexual abuser is excluded. (It’s not like the current GOP majority in either house of Congress is exactly a bunch of winners in that regard.) We’ll have more women stepping up, and a better quality of male candidates than we’ve had, is my guess.

[Bone]

@Sage_Rat

Or shall I come to your house and fondle your ballsack?

Sarcasm for sure, but this is unnecessarily personal. Dial it back.

[/moderating]

[HurricaneDitka]

@Procrustus

Hopefully the Democratic base will be less willing to overlook this type of conduct.

Are you kidding? They were the ones that overlooked it the first time.

[Procrustus]

@HurricaneDitka

Are you kidding? They were the ones that overlooked it the first time.

I said “hopefully.”

[Deeg]

@Thing_Fish

I assume the allegations about the forced kiss are a politically motivated slander designed to draw attention away from Roy Moore.

Or maybe, with the current atmosphere, she thinks she’ll finally be taken seriously despite her political affiliations. If so, I hope she’s not wrong.

[HurricaneDitka]

@Procrustus

I said “hopefully.”

Ah, well, then I hope (probably in vain) for the same.

[madsircool]

She is about to hold an impromptu press conference.

[RTFirefly]

@Fotheringay-Phipps

That’s just not correct. She doesn’t say anywhere that she thought his intention in that photo was to ridicule and humiliate her, which is your claim.

Not in so many words. She just connects the dots from her rejection of Franken to his recurring petty insults aimed at her during the rest of the trip to the photo.

What do you think her words, “But he didn’t stop there” meant? That was the phrase connecting the insults with the photo.

Sheesh.

[XT]

Seems like Congress as a whole has an issue with sexual harassment. Note, this is on both sides of the political isle. Here is CNN’s article on the OP (sorry if it’s been linked to already):

(CNN)A woman accused Minnesota Democratic Sen. Al Franken on Thursday of groping her and kissing her without her consent in 2006 while she was on a USO Tour overseas.
Leeann Tweeden is now a morning news anchor on TalkRadio 790 KABC in Los Angeles and posted her story in a lengthy post on the station’s website.
The alleged incidents happened before Franken was elected to the Senate in 2008 and was seated in 2009 following a recount.

Tweeden described the harassment as being part of a script for a USO skit where Franken wrote where he’s supposed to kiss her. She writes that Franken repeatedly insisted they rehearse the kissing scene despite her protests. When she relented, Franken, “put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth.”
“Senator Franken, you wrote the script,” Tweeden wrote. “But there’s nothing funny about sexual assault.”
She also included a photo in which Franken appears to grabbing Tweeden’s breast while she’s asleep.

[FlikTheBlue]

@HurricaneDitka

At least two of our last four Presidents have various allegations of sexual harassment against them. I don’t see how this is really an impediment.

You may have forgotten Bush Sr as well. That makes it 3 of the last 5. As far as I know Obama and Bush Jr have not been mentioned in association with these types of allegations. I hope it stays that way for both of them (meaning I hope they are both not sexual harassers).

[RTFirefly]

@HurricaneDitka

Are you kidding? They were the ones that overlooked it the first time.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Saint_Cad]

This is very dangerous for the Dems. I’ve always thought Al Franken was a jerk but this is nowhere near what Roy Moore did. If the Dems are not careful they could come across as excusing sexual harassment of one of their own.

[Sage_Rat]

@aldiboronti

I don’t like Franken or his politics but it’s not as if he raped somebody or seriously sexually assaulted them. The kiss was wrong, the gag not funny, but if no other worse accusations come to light this should be dismissed and should have no impact at all on his political career. We need a little perspective in these things.

I’m feeling like more accusations will come to light. This seems like a pretty crass thing to do for a guy in his 60s. One has to assume that it’s a staple of his general behavior around good looking women in general.