The photo is pretty much what I would expect from a comedian with an SNL pedigree of that period. Still a dick move IMO.
The forced kissing and harassment is inexcusable. I’m sure he remembers it differently. If no one else comes forward this may not hurt him too much.
I’m getting the impression most of my sex have been pigs of this sort at least once. Very, very disappointing.
Sorry, that’s not “reading comprehension”. That’s “selective editing”. Understood that you had to resort to that, of course.
Yes.
Its good to have a ruling on that. Clears the air.
I agree, let the hammer fall where it may. Regardless of political or societal position. Because these sort of harassment and abuses are not about sex, they are about power. Men in power abusing their position over women. Al is clearly objectifying and exerting his opportunity over a sleeping woman. Making it a "joke’ is no excuse. Does anyone really find the picture funny?
A line needs to firmly be drawn where this sort of thing is clearly unacceptable. If it destroys some otherwise good men so what. Let them fall.
There are lies, rumors, allegations, all that can be flavored through our own personal prism. And then there are pictures. The picture cannot be hand waved away. And to dismiss the woman as acting for political purposes demeans all the women who report these incidents or fail to because they will not be believed.
Al Franken’s political future will not, and should not survive this. He has about 10 days, maybe less.
More from Franken:
Yep, that excuses what he does when he’s offstage. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
This does strike me as a situation where two people can have two valid but very different interpretations of how things went down. She acknowledges that the audience likes sexual innuendo and raunchy skits. Franken wrote one of those. Clearly, she thought his motivation was simply to force her to kiss him but it’s equally plausible that Franken simply wrote a skit he thought the audience would like. Same thing with the kiss. Is an exaggerated kiss a joke or was Franken getting his rocks off?
The way she exaggerates doesn’t sit well with me. She says that he groped her and kissed her without consent. Her story and the picture contradict that. She says she said “Ok” to the kiss after he badgered her into it. Obviously badgering someone into kissing you is clearly wrong, but it’s also clearly different than kissing someone without their consent. Same thing with the picture. Franken clearly is not actually groping her but pretending to. Again, obviously clearly wrong, but also clearly not groping her. Given these exaggerations, I’m less inclined to trust her characterizations of the other events.
Either way, this strikes me as different from the other accusations we’ve heard. In those cases, there is no doubt that the actions were criminal and inappropriate. This one seems to be in a gray area.
Way to avoid his forced and unwanted tongue kissing.
Disclaimer: yes, I’m a liberal, and I’d been surprisingly impressed with Franken’s performance as a senator.
The fact that she’s apparently been a regular guest on Fox News programs (I acknowledge that I’d never heard of her before 2 hours ago) suggests to me the possibility that the timing of her revealing her story was in response to the Roy Moore stories, and may have had some political / partisan motivations.
On the other hand, the timing may also have been influenced by all of the other sexual harassment revelations from the past few weeks.
Regardless, I see no reason to doubt her story. There’s a picture of the “groping” shot, and Franken acknowledged the gist of her story (even though he claimed to have not remembered it going down in quite the same manner). He comes across as both a horndog, and vindictive.
Really?
He didn’t use that as an excuse, just stated it as a fact. Went on to say what he remembers is not relevant.
OK then, edit it the way you think I should have edited it, to show how I was ‘selective.’
Because the only damn way I was ‘selective’ was to not quote half the damn article. We’ve got rules against that.
He doesn’t remember it the same way, which to me means that she is telling the truth, as is Franken on his memory.
It was a big deal to her, rightfully. Assuming it wasn’t a pattern for Franken (which is fair until the next shoe drops), it was a lark to him at the time and there would be no particular reason to him remember the details.
I am amazed at the rush to judgement here and elsewhere. Particularly in liberal circles.
So far we have an accusation by one woman against one man of a forced kiss and groping while she was sleeping.
The groping is unclear. The photographic evidence is of him mimicking groping her but not actually touching her.
The facts of the kissing incident are disputed by him and by her own admission there were no witnesses nor did she tell anyone who could do anything about it at the time.
He drew devils horns on photographs of her during the tour.
That’s it. And for this there are calls for his resignation all over the internet.
For #1, unless he actually did fondle her, it is hard to get overly fussed about it. In poor taste sure but I see no evidence that he tried to use this to harm her reputation or mess with her career. If he did fondle her then that is a crime and he should be held accountable.
For #2 she admits she consented to the kiss but he took the kiss too far. He says he remembers the incident differently.
For #3 I’m not sure what the problem is at all.
We have no evidence that Franken further helped or hindered Tweeden’s career (so no quid pro quo/casting couch thing) nor was the photo ever used publicly that I have seen (and if so got few views).
The timing of this is also suspect. Why now? Why not during his run for senator or wait till he runs again? Conservatives have a history of ginning up stories that have little merit (e.g. ACORN to name one).
I know it is popular to #believethewoman but seems to me you should need more than the above to end someone’s career. Currently we have a he said/she said.
I felt this about Cosby and Moore and Spacey and Weinstein and others as well. In the end a lot more evidence came out on those guys and they all proved to be serious creeps (to put it mildly). If more comes out about Franken then he needs to be held to account as well.
Till then I think it is too soon to be demanding Franken’s ouster from the senate.
A good apology.
I guess I missed it. What is her motive?
I don’t think you understand what pedophilia is.
Perhaps progressives shouldn’t run plays from the Roy Moore defense playbook.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you accept responsibility for fucking up and apologize.
Yes, Al Franken’s pseudo-apology is much lamer than Roy Moore’s most honorable expression of contrition.
oh, wait …