Now hear this, you whiney old farts: let me get my work done!

The BBQ Pit
61

So when I call myself a “whiny old fart” (as I did at my middle school girls volleyball practice just yesterday), to my own face, I’m lacking empathy.

Hell, Caridwen, the post you linked to showed a great deal of introspection. She identified a behavior she’s not proud of, hopefully in an effort to overcome it. Just identifying it puts her one up on many.

So many Dopers look down their noses on anyone not walking on water, parting it when they get across, and then turning it into wine when all the elderly and orphans have past. Being so judgmental, however, doesn’t seem to be a character flaw.

62

I’m touched that you care enough to look up my old posts, Caridwen. Let me re-state what I have already said in this thread:

EMPATHY IS NOT REQUIRED ON MY JOB. Good manners are, and I display them. For the last time in this thread, I AM NOT A SOCIAL WORKER.

I’m wondering, Caridwen, how gender-motivated your concern is. If my name were Sam instead of Sonia, would you care about my empathy quotient? Or would you be saying to yourself, “Yeah, that Sam, he gets his work done. He’s efficient and focused on the job.”

63

In other words, people should be nice and sympathetic to other people who are being annoying, and not let that annoying behavior bother them, because it’s really not that important in the grand scheme of things. That is a very valid point and a very admirable attitude.

However, people who expect that attitude to apply in Pit rants are being, not to put too fine a point on it, fuckwits. For Og’s sake, being “petty and uncharitable and resentful”—in a harmless consequences-free environment where we can enjoy those sentiments without feeling guilty about them—is what the Pit is ALL ABOUT.

:rolleyes: Well, sure, if we assume that the OP is just making shit up, then any criticism we make about her statements is bound to be valid! Convenient, isn’t it?

Honestly, Soup, you’re usually one of my favorite posters and I enjoy your finely-tuned satirical posts very much, but you are being absolutely tone-deaf on this one. Stop trying to mellow my harsh, dude.

64

Where, pray tell, do I state that it’s not my job to answer questions about the by-laws and regs that I administer? For heaven’s sakes, you nitwit, I do answer all questions related to my department. I have stated in this thread that I do.

What I object to are the people who think they can argue, threaten cajole or bribe (yes, bribe - it’s been tried) me into bending the rules for them.

And where did I state that I have “many assistants?” I wish, boy. I wish. We are serously shorthanded; if I had more help maybe I’d have the time to play amateur therapist.

65

Wouldn’t dream of it, and doubt that I could if I tried.

It’s not that I don’t appreciate you for taking the time to educate me with respect to The True Meaning of The Pit; it was a noble effort that fell just short. I can’t, however, quite shake the feeling that the difference between a message board and, say, a mimeographed screed stapled to a utility pole, is the opportunity for feedback – an OP gets to open up his/her id box, sure, but then everybody else gets to comment on the fun prizes inside. What’s more, I think this is a valuable difference.

As a pretty smart guy once said, “An alarming number of posters in this thread seem unable to distinguish between Pit attitude and real-life behavior.” I’m afraid that’s true in a different sense than you intended, and that’s why I think it’s important to rein in pittings that demonstrate intolerance of the elderly or any other group, because validating such attitudes here cannot but increase the chances that they’ll be expressed elsewhere. Tolerance for the frailties of others (as opposed to, say, malice) is part of the planetary cover charge – or should be, anyhow.

And it’s not as if I’m mounting a particularly vicious attack. True, I think it would be exaggerating a bit to suggest that people are coming in for no purpose other than to inconvenience her, and I think I’m on solid ground there. I’ve also said that the first part of her complaint certainly seems to be her job – answering questions about municipal regulations for which she says she’s responsible. And I’ve made the suggestion that if her bosses have placed her in the way of the public and won’t allow her to shut them out, that perhaps her insistence that dealing with these people isn’t her job needs rethinking. I’ve seen nothing that persuades me that any of these assessments is out of line.

On preview, I see that the OP has more to say. A pity. Sonia, (1) the remark about your many assistants was intended ironically to underline the point that you may not be as important as you think you are; (2) whoever wrote the OP accused people who come in to complain or ask about or request exceptions to the regs you administer of wasting your time; (3) regardless of your insistence that dealing with the public isn’t your job, it evidently is: otherwise your bosses would put you in an environment better suited to your personality.

66

But the OP did not demonstrate any intolerance of the elderly. She demonstrated intolerance of a particular subset of the elderly: namely, the subset that wastes the time of busy employees with fruitless and irrelevant complaining.

I think it’s rather patronizing to assume that this subset can be equated with the elderly in general. I’d guess that most people over 65 are not in fact self-absorbed and clueless enough to indulge in that kind of behavior. My own mother, for example, is nearly eighty, and she would never dream of wasting an office worker’s time bitching about her petty personal gripes. As she says herself, that’s what one’s kids are for. :wink:

No. That would at least be entertaining.

67

I don’t see the OP making any such fine distinctions. She’s not complaining about being interrupted, she’s complaining about being interrupted by old people. She addresses her screed to “you whiney old farts” and she later narrows that down to “old folks of MyTown, Massachusetts.” This is not the voice of someone prepared to greet the next wrinkled face she sees with anything resembling an open mind. Besides, I’m not accusing her of being intolerant of all elderly people, and the fact that she’s intolerant of some of them isn’t exactly a controversial proposition. Anyhow, your distinction is meaningless: if we are tolerant only of those folks who don’t annoy or inconvenience us, what does “tolerance” mean?

I’m objecting to the OP because I hope to discourage its author from letting the attitudes expressed therein bubble up anywhere else. It is both possible and necessary to be kind to old people who need to say things and still accomplish other stuff too. As I said, there’s tact and a certain skill required, but they can be learned by most people. I hope the OP can do it, because despite her desperate bleating of “it’s not my job,” apparently the joke’s on her, and it is. If so, she’s going to need something better than “I don’t care – go away” as a strategy. If she has any sense, she’ll put several chairs, a coffee maker and a radio out in the hallway. All her visitors can talk to each other, and the presence of a crowd outside her door all day will serve to discourage people from transacting business in person.

68

Wow. All people, in my little opinion, even those in customer service or public service or any other job involved with service, should be able to blow off steam. I’ve worked in both and bitched about both.

Person A will occasionally be annoyed by other people. Person A will want to bitch about other people from time to time. At one point in our lives, every single person has been Person A.

The weird thing is, Miss Sonia’s gripings sound perfectly justified to me. People are wasting her time as well as their own. And yet some people still won’t let her have her moment as Person A.

69

Wow, you’re kind of a prick. Also, your logic is flawed. Just because her bosses don’t see fit to put mechanisms in place to shield her from these people doesn’t mean that it’s her job to deal with them. They probably can’t afford a personal secretary to screen people who walk in, and she apparently does have to take visitors from the general population for some issues. It’s probably not practical to shield her from the old farts but not the real “customers.”

70

So, galt, even though the OP works in a municipal office that is required by decree or by law to be open to the public, and even though a segment of the public is known to be importunate, or slow, or socially inept, or stupid, or lonely and needy and just plain annoying, if not infuriating, it isn’t her job to deal with all of them, good and bad? And this is so because the town could conceivably have hired guards to wrestle the elderly out the door if they mention their health (“I shot in self-defense: he was reaching for baby pictures”) but didn’t because there wasn’t enough money, or they just forgot, or something? I think I like your brand of logic – it’s certainly more fun than mine. I’ll try it out on my employer: the fact that they could have but didn’t hire someone else to deal with the annoying, less-productive part of my job means that it’s really not my job after all! Once more, with feeling: dealing with annoying members of the public, by design or by default, is included in the OP’s job. Apparently the fact that (according to her) every other town office is in the same boat has not yet revealed it’s significance to her.

Actually, back in post 27 or so, the OP did mention a receptionist. Maybe he’s just a really bad one, or maybe old people in MyTown are extra-stealthy, or maybe they often do have some form of legitimate business but try to sneak in some personal conversation as well, the crafty bastards.

In any event, the OP has as much right to complain about people who bother her for no good reason as they have to be there in the first place. What bothers me is that her annoyance seems to be spawning a really nasty personal attitude toward these people; one that leaves no room for a minute’s kindness and charity toward them, not because they’ve done anything to earn it, but just because they’re people. We ignore society’s obligation to the elderly at our own peril: growing old is what will happen to us if we’re lucky.

If she hasn’t yet learned how to get her work done and still muster a sympathetic expression for an old lady’s sciatica, or a convincing “congratulations” at news of a birth, or a word of appreciation for some old guy’s long-forgotten (except by him) contributions to society, she’s in for a rough time. There are lots of people who can do it: they are happier for it, and so are the people they serve.

71

I remember many incidents being stuck listening to some older person when I wanted to be doing something else. I know it can be annoying.

But, Sonia Montdore, is it impolite of me to inquire how old you are?

I have found, as the years roll by, and speaking strictly for myself, that my exasperation and impatience with the common foibles of old people has been turning more and more into sympathy.

It’s not been a dramatic revelation, just a gradual mellowing, I guess.

It would be presumptuous of me to wish a similar metamorphosis on anyone else. All I can wish for you is that, as The King of Soup has implied, you get the opportunity to look back on your own attitude from the perspective of an advanced age.

Respectfully,

Sailboat

72

Sailboat, she already said she’s of a similar age to the people she’s complaining about.

73

I’m very impressed at how King of Soup knows more about the OP’s job than the OP herself. He must have worked extra hard to be that smart.

74

Um, no, she’s complaining about being interrupted by old people who are whiney old farts with irrelevant complaints.

I didn’t see any evidence that Sonia has any objection at all to being interrupted by old people who have questions or remarks that are legitimately related to the tasks of her job.

Of course it’s Sonia’s job to deal with all of them, good and bad. She’s said so herself, and has assured us more than once that she deals with all of them politely. She just came in here to complain about the bad ones.

How you figure? In my book, bothering somebody for no good reason—especially somebody who’s busy working—is something that a person who aspires to decent manners doesn’t have any right to do. Complaining about such behavior is much more justifiable than committing it.

Nonsense. It’s unrealistic to expect workers to concentrate on a task like writing a report (which is one of the duties Sonia mentioned in her OP) while carrying on a prolonged conversation.

Just because an employee’s job involves dealing with the public doesn’t mean that it’s okay for members of the public to hog the employee’s time with irrelevant chatting or complaining, nor should workers be expected to perform all their other assigned tasks while simultaneously conversing on irrelevant topics. If the municipality in question really wants to provide unlimited chatting and sympathizing services to bored natterers with too much time on their hands, let them hire a social worker for the purpose.

Um, Pit ranting usually expresses negative attitudes that shouldn’t be expressed in real life. If you really feel called upon to object to such rants, you’re going to be kept pretty busy around here.

Have you considered instead devoting some of that time and effort to, say, going down to your local town hall and chatting with idle natterers who want to complain about their ailments or their children? It would be a kind and sympathetic act, and it would free up more of the employees’ time for performing their assigned duties.

75

Don’t be touched. I read the prejudiced against fat folks remark before I read your rant about old farts and it stuck in my head. Coupled with this thread, I found it odd, that’s all.

Have absolutely no idea what that gender-motivation babble is supposed to mean. But no, my impression of you would be the same, man or woman.

Like I said in post #48, this appears to be more of an administration problem.

Some good came out of this thread and gave me hope. Given people’s attitude about old people, McCain won’t get elected. :wink:

76

Ahh, just so I am clear. Anyone who thinks she is merely a civil servant who should do what ever a civilian wants at the time, I am sure you are willing to pay more taxes to have important duties go un-completed so that they speak with individuals who have completely no business in that area right? Right? Oh wait, you want your tax dollars spent for efficient production? Then grab a big ole cup of shut the fuck up.

77

Why, in my day we weren’t allowed to ramble. Why, I remember back in 1942 we had to get right to the point, yes sir, because there was a war on and we had no time to waste, so we’d keep the conversations short and carry on with the scrap-metal drive to keep the factories working, and wouldn’t you know it but toothpaste in those days came in tubes of soft lead, not like that fancy plastic stuff you kids have today, so they’d always be telling us: “you brush your teeth nice and clean and save the tube for Uncle Sam”, they did, so when I went to my dental appointments (which were hard to get because all the good dentists were over in Europe ‘cause of the war), they always said “That’s a nice set of choppers you got there, son,” and I’d smile all the way home, well, that was back when I had my own teeth, not like these things [pops out false teeth to scare the grandkids, then puts them back in to continue]. Say, did you kids know George Washington had wooden teeth? Boy, that was another thing that was scarce when I was a kid. Our favourite pictures of George Washington were always on the good ol’ dollar bill, but times was tough and we’d say to each other “Seen George lately?” and you were supposed to say “Not since 1929”, which was the big joke of the day. Of course, if you HAD seen George, a good kid would treat his friends to a visit to the amusement park, where you could get hot dogs for a nickel and ride the tilt-a-whirl, though if you were smart you rode the tilt-a-whirl first 'cause you didn’t want to give your hot dog back, if you know what I mean. Yeah, then there was the hall of mirrors, and the favourite one was the one that made you look fat, because none of us really had any meat on our bones to spare, what with the Depression and then the War and all, not like kids today with their big Nintender thumbs and trinkies cakes, or whatever they’re called. Now, if you had a penny left over after the day at the park, you were supposed to put it in the poorbox at Church, but I usually tricked my folks and I’d drop in a small flat rock instead so it would make that sound, though I’d kept my penny. Now the best flat rocks in those days were found down by the beach…

78

I work at a public university. My salary is partially paid by the fine citizens of my state. The campus is open to the public. When I’m in the middle of teaching, is it okay for Joe Random to walk into my classroom and start arguing with me about the government? No, no it is not. Because I have a different function in the organization, which is to teach the 120 people sitting in the room. That doesn’t mean I’m impolite, but it does mean that the time I spend talking the person out of the room is time taken away from my actual work commitments.

79

Lissa, he’s not saying that. No one is saying that. Of course no one believes that people should have free access to all offices and just harass workers just because they pay taxes. I’ve worked state and federal jobs.

Her rant is about the pesky band of seniors that run wild in her town hall. Frankly I have a hard time even believing it happens. Because of elections and things I’m in our town hall all the time and I’ve never seen it. My friend’s the assistant to the administrator and she laughed when I told her about it.

I’m sure you’ve been in the Town Hall to renew a dog license, register to vote, what have you. Did you ever see the free for all that’s apparently going on in her town hall?

Unless she lives in bumfuck Mass with about 50 people in her town, isn’t there an office at most town halls for all the things she’s complaining about? Wouldn’t you send someone bitching about taxes to the tax department?

She said she has limited customer contact. Yet in her words, people are asking her about-

“I do not fix parking tickets”

“Just because I work at town hall, it doesn’t mean I am qualified to answer questions about your property taxes”

“I know nothing about trash pick-up”

“I do not take complaints about the librarians”

“And it’s not just me they are doing this to: it’s every department at town hall. The wrinklies simply drop in anywhere and unload their litany of complaints, unheedful of the work that their captive listener has to do. Every man and woman who works here is thoroughly sick of the pushy geezers and the way they waste our time.”

Unless she’s the receptionist at the front door why do they ask her if she has limited contact?

What bothers me the most about this are her remarks about “The wrinklies”, “old farts”, geezers. If she’s in some sort of administrative position, that’s pretty tasteless.

Call me crazy but I don’t like seeing the elderly demeaned. I don’t like any kind of prejudice including prejudice and negative stereotypes against the elderly. It’s ignorant and ugly. And yes, I’m aware that she didn’t say all old people were like that. Just the 95% that complain.

80

I believe you when you say that you are polite and civil and that you just need to let off steam in the pit. I can understand that. But I ask you to reconsider your situation.

Unless a change is made to put you into a more private space, your exposure to this frustrating situation is going to continue. One of the few things that you can change is your attitude.

I know that the job and the paperwork that you are paid to do is important. And I know too that elderly people can be cantankerous, frustrating and time-consuming. But to them, you can be the bright spot in their day – and I’m not exaggerating.

Actually, empathy may be the very thing that will free you from your feelings of frustration. If you think that they make your day a nightmare, try to imagine what they might be feeling physically, mentally and emotionally.

Being very old is not just like being thirty or fifty except you are baggy and wrinkled and ugly. Your bones hurt. It’s hard to breathe. Your friends are dead. Your brothers and sisters are dead or dying. There are no children in your life. You aren’t just bored. You know that people find you boring. You used to be useful to others.

Maybe you were once a pretty homecoming queen or a football player or a judge or a teacher or the mayor. Maybe you had a Victory Garden or parachuted into France in June of 1944. Maybe you saved a child’s life. Maybe your grandson is in Iraq. Maybe you live alone and don’t talk to anyone all day long.

It’s hard to think straight and realize that you are “wasting” someone’s time. Not only is your judgment impaired a little, but you came from a time when people took the time to talk with each other a little more and things didn’t move so quickly. And people were more important than paperwork.

It was hard for me to get my work done with all of the interruptions that I had on my job too. After all, I was hired to teach English. I wasn’t hired to listen to boyfriend problems, pin a kid’s blue jeans together, counsel a young man who talks to me about his homosexuality, make a giant get well card for the Assistant Principal, lend a student lunch money, take a student shopping, listen to song lyrics, go to a funeral.

But I didn’t just teach English. I taught students.

I don’t know what your job is, but please try to find some joy in public service and usefulness to the elderly. They are not being “whiney.” Children and spoiled people are whiney. Confused people or people in pain have legitimate complaints even when they don’t understand that you have to say no and no means no.

I do hope that you either get some relief from this situation or can begin to find some pleasure in it. These folks need more than just civility.

(I spent this morning with approximately 300 seniors. We were in a class on the First Amendment. Rather bawdy group, actually. We’re the lucky ones, so far.)

The King of Soup, you and a couple of others kept me from feeling really down while reading this thread. Thanks.

BTW, as of tomorrow, it will have been five months or more since any of my step-children or grandchildren have contacted me. One of them contacted my husband on Father’s Day. That was the last we heard anything.