Fine. Teach creationism in science class as an alternate “theory” to evolution. Go ahead.
Unfortunately, then you’ll have to teach children why it is useless in the case of Old Earth Creationism, which has ZERO predictive power and is not falsifiable, and wrong in the case of Young Earth Creationism, which makes specific predictions that can be and have been proven wrong (e.g. the Flood).
Is that what you want? Because I don’t mind that AT ALL.
I spent 5 years going to school in Grand Rapids, at Calvin College. Calvin was founded by (you guessed it) Calvinists belonging to the Christian Reformed Church, which is one of the dominate denominations in West Michigan. The interesting thing is that my geology and biology professors had no problems with evolution. Most of them saw it as their mission to show that it is possible to be a Christian and accept evolution. It’s the lay people, especially those over 40 or so, who cause all the ruckus.
I’ve always wondered, why the U.S. is such a hotbed of creationism. In Europe, there dosen´t seem to be the same cotton industry against evolution as the case is on the other side of the pond. Especially not in Scandinavia, who is largely Protestant yet creationism there is seen as a joke.
And yet the U.S is currently the world leader in the biological sciences (does most of the research, has top facilities etc.) and a huge number of people in the U.S. want to outlaw “evil-ution”.
Seems you have the extremes of everything, both good and bad.
wring said:
So I take it you won’t be sending him any campaign contributions? 
I suspect you’ll either get no response or another generic one. Not that I’m really going out on a limb with that prediction…
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Jon: Thanks for the links. I’ll add 'em to the Skeptic News item.
Mahaloth wrote:
“evolutionism”?!
“believe” in it?!
These terms are descriptive of religious convictions, not sciences. Scientists generally don’t “believe” in various theories so much as note how strong the evidence is for them. Do you believe in gravity?
Have you discussed this group:
http://www.aibs.org/outreach/evlist.html
It was as if the academics thought discussing creationism was a waste of time and could be ignored. Now this group and others(?) have decided it is serious and time to get involved.
Jois
I like the way they pretend to portray evolution and creationism as equivalent theories:
However, their bias shows through; “provability” of theories aside, notice how the theory of evolution must be labelled “unproven”, yet the “theory” of creation requires no such qualifier.
“Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it” —Andre Gide
Actually, my wife suggested that you send his letter to “Harper’s.” It would be right up their alley!
-Ben
that’s an understatement.
This guy is a former State Police officer who, about 10 years ago hosted a drinking party for his underage son/son’s friends to commiserate their other friends death from drunken driving. They dropped the charge from a felony so he wouldn’t loose his job. :rolleyes:
I live in an extremely Republican district.
Ben would be happy to send it on, if I knew where to send???
This is far from just a “Michigan thing.” Pennsylvania is considering a similar move. Oklahoma’s already done it. And you already know about Kansas. I’m sure there are other states I’m unaware of.
Now, now Milo don’t get your dander up. Save the rightous indignation for your State Rep. You are going to contact them, aren’t you???
I just sent an e-mail to the state rep from my home town, asking him why he co-sponsored this bill. If he answers, I’ll post his response here.
Now, now, wring. I wasn’t righteously indignant, and didn’t express righteous indignation. I merely pointed out that this is a nationwide trend, occurring in at least a few states, not just Michigan. Which points to the irrelevance of statements such as there being too many churches in Kalamazoo, or women in Grand Rapids upset over scantily clad mannequins, or whatever.
As for contacting my state representative, I can save my energy. My Rep is one of the louder Democrats in the House, Andy Neumann (I don’t hold it against him too much, though. 
He’s a good guy. I’m on a first-name basis with him, through my work.)
If a Republican proposed it, not only will Neumann be voting against it, he will be doing so loudly.
Hey, wait just a damn minute there.
We did NOT “already done it” in Oklahoma. We only thought about doing it. Fortunately, wiser heads prevailed and the idiotic notion was dumped.
And it wasn’t the state legislature (amazingly enough!), it was the state education committee (or some such; don’t recall the exact title at the moment).
We’uns ain’t all that bad down here, y’all. 
Milo gets the “loud democrat good guy” and I get the guy who misspells the word “intelligent”. arghhhhhhhhhh
well, as long as your rep will yell and scream. Unfortunately, mine will undoubtably vote for it.
Evolution is a fact. Evolution is also a theory. I don’t really expect state legislators to be able to grasp that sort of subtlety, but that is the sort of thing high school science courses should really be trying to get across.
2nd Law said:
Just a suggestion: Send a letter, too; or, better yet, call.
Elected folks don’t pay too much attention to e-mails. They’re just too easy. It takes a little more time to write a letter, sign it, put it in an envelope, seal it, stamp it, and drop it in a mailbox. And even more to call. They take these things into account.
Now, given that he co-sponsored the bill, I doubt you’ll get very far. But if enough outraged people send him letters or jam his switchboard, it’s more likely to get through to him than just a bunch of (in his “mind”) spam e-mail.
Folks, we can all expect this debate to be revisited after every election cycle. Nobody really expects bills such as this one to go anywhere. A common pattern is passage by the lower legislative body (typically the “House”), followed by a quiet death in committee or by procedure when the bill reaches the Senate. Crazy bills filed by Senators usually attract some attention, but are strategically buried in procedural detail and quickly forgotten.
Redtail23 said:
Fortunately, wiser heads prevailed and the idiotic notion was dumped.
While this statement is true to an extent, one could replace the words “wiser heads” with “politics”. This is an example of how politicians protect each other.
Example: Politician A from a conservative-protestant district can score big points with the constituents by taking on the “Federal Government” and “working hard to bring (prayer, creation science, etc.) back to the community”. Politician A knows his/her legislation either has no idea of becoming law, or is unconstitutional.
It doesn’t matter. Politician A knows the bill will die, the folks back home will feel that their “hometown values” are being addressed, and everyone goes home happy.
The wild card situation is similar to what happened in Kansas. Elected and/or appointed bodies without bicameral checks and balances, or, at least, threat of executive veto can do some really serious damage to the Republic, in my estimation.
Do you live in Michigan??? Are you aware of the configuration and make up of this state’s legislature?
This bill has a good chance of succeeding, IMHO (having lived in the Lansing area for the past 20 or so years…)
Wring, I assume that you were talking to me. I live in South Carolina.
I did not intend to make light of your concern for the situation. I think that every prudent person understands that no person’s life, liberty or property are safe whenever the legislature is in session (stated by someone else, I cannot remember the source).
Yes, the only thing I know about Michigan politics is that your Governor is not named Fieger. I also know that you have a bicameral state legislature.
I stand by my original position: the Michigan House of Representatives may well give strong debate to this bill. A lot of noise will be made by the thumping of chests and the bleating of sheep.
This bill as written will not become the law of the land in Michigan. Michigan is a heavy electoral state which may produce a presidential candidate one day. Nobody (of political significance) there wants to be weighed down by the nut vote. I would be shocked if even a watered-down version of this bill reached the desk of your Governor. Even then, the bureaucracy would whittle it into dust.
We will see what develops. I will offer appropriate mea culpas (and my Frogmore Stew Receipt) should things go differently.
Wring, please keep me updated.