Boy,
The Grand Tetons must give someone as PC as you the vapors.
I mean, I’m enjoying the conversation, to the extent we’re having one, so whatever the goal is with the repeated accusations that I’m over here aghast, you know, have at it. I’ll let you know if I get offended, I promise.
But so I guess that’s what you have to say? I’m too PC, fist pound!?
Not quite…
Too PC! What an amusing pansy.
Once you redact the extremes (“obscure”, “entirely”, and “almost entirely”), the first one. Otherwise, neither. But closer to the first one.
I think you have it backwards. “Pansy” meant (past tense) “gay” because when someone looks at a flaming gay guy, they think “Wow, he acts like a woman. What’s the word for that? Pansy. He’s a pansy.” and the usage spread to other gays. It wasn’t “Wow, that straight guy is acting homosexually. What’s a word for that? Pansy. That guy is a pansy because he’s like a homosexual.”
Jimmy, I think you’re just out of touch with the way the word is used today. I think you just don’t realize that most people think of a pansy as a weakling, not a gay person. If you want, open up a poll in IMHO and we’ll see which is more common.
I suspect you also have it backwards. I would have assumed it was originally more along the lines of, “hey, that guy’s, like, such a delicate flower. Like a pansy. Yeah, he’s a pansy!”
Well, in polite conversation one usually strives for that. But I often forget that some people feel their right to sound like an asshole trumps that. I’m honestly just amused that you seem more concerned with “Rar! I meant THIS, so fuck you for taking me the wrong way!” other than “Huh. My choice of words bothered you? Perhaps I shall avoid them later, because I am a decent fellow and not a giant tool.”
Look, no one objecting to the use of pansy is curling up in the fetal position and crying themselves to sleep over the grave insult. The point is that word conjures up some bad feelings in people for many legitimate reasons.
But, whatever. Carry on, dude. Being considerate of other people in conversation doesn’t matter. Politeness is for pansies!
I’m well aware of the current usage. I think you missed the part, though, where most of the people in the thread have been arguing that you didn’t use the word to mean “acting like a woman,” which you’ve just admitted that you were. So I think you and I are actually on the same page, except that we differ on whether it’s, long-term, a bad idea to call a man a woman for being a whiner. Which, no big deal, I wouldn’t have pitted you for it, but that isn’t what I’ve been mostly arguing with these other clowns about.
But I was trying to be insulting. I was using a derogatory term against the boycotters.
Language is a two-way street here. If I’m going to try to avoid insulting you, then you’ve also got to try not to be insulted. “Pansy” is a word, I think, where you’ve got to come to me, not me to you. Now “nigger”, as used by whoever’s grandfather, isn’t one of those words. The speaker’s got to come to the listener on that one. But “pansy”? Sorry. That’s slid on over to the innocuous camp by now. So I disagree with your assessment that the bad feelings are legitimate. Not with that word. Not anymore.
But remember, this whole thing didn’t start over a discussion of the word in question. It wasn’t “I can’t believe CS would use that word!” It was “I can’t believe CS thinks as he does!” The first statement would have gotten a “well, I think that word has a different dominant meaning now than it did decades ago.” The latter comment, like in the OP, instead gets a “Rar! I meant THIS, so fuck you for taking me the wrong way!” That’s the difference.
Let’s say you said “I think I got gyped by the cashier.” Think about the differences in your reaction to:
- That word offends gypsies and Romanians. You should watch your mouth.
- I can’t believe you think gypsies are thieves or unscrupulous businesspersons! You’re a horrible racist!
My reactions would be:
- Hey, come on. I don’t think most speakers or listeners link gyp to gypsies. Moreover, I highly doubt I’ll ever encounter an actual gypsie or Romanian and have cause to use that word anyway. I don’t think I need to be that careful.
- Fuck you for calling me racist, and fuck you for attributing such a disparaging trait to me. It’s obvious that that’s not what I said nor intended to mean!
Well, now that brings up the two…er, meanings of “meaning”. There’s the definition of a word you actually use, and then the idea you are trying to convey via this definition. To be clear, just because I used a word meaning “acting like a woman” doesn’t mean I’m trying to convey that the boycotters are “acting like women”. Instead, it conveys that they’re weak and wimpy. Now whether that’s a sexist or even nice thing to do, well, as you say, it’s not worth arguing over.