NPR refuses to use the word "torture" so as not to take sides.

[Harborwolf]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

Harborwolf, you use a word like “brah”, and I’m supposed to be the dumb one?

Come off it - the butthurt is coming off you in waves. People standing in your proximity are getting contact butthurt.

As to NPR and their politics, I think we can safely discard the myth that they are liberal. Are they conservative? Well, I offer NPR’s Cokie Roberts, NPR’s Mara Liasson, and NPR’s Juan Williams as evidence. Their practices have certainly helped the Republicans efforts to muddy the political discussion in the country. Don’t forget - they were one of the few media outlets to report finding WMDs in Iraq.

And now, in an effort not to take sides on an issue, they take the side of Dick Cheney in using double-speak and obfuscation rather than calling torture torture.

If it looks like a duck and does all those other duckly things…

Awwwww. Aren’t you just the cutest wittle ting. Who’s the cutest wittle ting? You are. Oh yes you are.

I’m curious as to why “brah” tripped the stupid meter and not the hopelessly dated “Keep on rockin’.” And how are either of those things any less clever than “butthurt?”

And the only butthurt I’m feeling is because I got the new Gomez album only to discover that it’s not as good as “How We Operate.” Damn sad that.

As for the whole “looking like a duck,” you don’t even have that. You heard a quack one time and are now convinced that you live in a world of ducks.

Lastly, because I forgot to link to something funnier than Hentor’s noticing of blah blah, here’s another linkthat I should’ve put in my earlier post. Enjoy the twofer.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Why don’t you guys just kiss and get it over with?

[Harborwolf]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Why don’t you guys just kiss and get it over with?

Alas. Our love shall never be, for he is a Penguins fan and I am a Red Wings fan. It’s like Romeo and Juliet, only more canadien.

[Starving_Artist]

@Banquet_Bear

…firstly Starving Artist, I must remind you that you still owe me a beer. I cannot for the life of me remember why you owe me a beer, but I am looking thirstily forward to it!

I agree with all of these things, and I am glad to hear that you do to.

Is it only Americans and their allies who should be allowed to use torture?

Consider Iraq. An estimated 9000 Iraqi soldiers died defending Iraq from coalition forces.
Cite.

In defense of country and their fellow man, would you excuse an Iraqi military officer from waterboarding a captured US soldier to find out information that may save Iraqi lives?

I am not American, and since the ANZUS relationship was suspended United States representatives have described our relationship as: “a friend, but not an ally”. This is despite the fact that the NZSAS was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation for their work during Operation Enduring Freedom.

So as a “non-US ally”, would it be right to torture someone to protect our nation?

In 1985 French Secret Service Agents planted a bomb on the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior in Auckland Harbour and it exploded, killing one man in it’s aftermath. France is an ally of the United States, NZ is (arguably) not. Who, in your opinion, would have the right to waterboard to protect its interest in this case?

Would you only be willing to use torture that doesn’t leave a mark?

With respect: if America engages in torture, it is a torturing entity. The US has only used waterboarding three times, but has routinely used stress positions, sleep deprevation and other techniques that cause extreme pain and stress but do not leave marks. The FBI witnessed a detainee chained to the floor in the fetal position, left to defecate himself and without food and water for 24 hours. These are not civilised actions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A14936-2004Dec20?language=printer

Sorry my friend, but I cannot agree that waterboarding is more humane and less harmful. The only difference between waterboarding and the methods of torture you talk about are that one method will leave physical damage to the body, and the other will not. They both will cause agonising pain and long lasting mental after-affects.

Do you conceede that waterboarding is torture?

I wouldn’t portray the US as gleefully torturing everyone it can, and I do not believe that is the intent of the majority of posters here.

But what we don’t want to happen is all of this to be swept under the carpet.

The United States is the only real world superpower now. There is nothing to stop your nation from literally doing anything: since the start of the war on terror the US has snatched people from the streets of Italy, the airports of Bosnia and Hotels in Gambia. And in almost all cases after being held in detention for years at places like Guantanemo Bay these people have been released with no charge, with it being revealed later on that they had no real evidence anyway.

There are two things that stop the US from turning into an absolute rouge superpower: your constitution and the will of your people. And when the US steps over the mark the people make noises, and so they should, and loudly.

Sweep these incidents under the carpet: ignore them or redefine them: these are your rights. But it won’t change reality.

And you be safe too. The recession is hitting us hard over here in NZ, but we are doing well to keep our heads above water.

…and finally…

http://www.tui.co.nz/

If you ever make it this far down this far, I look forward to shouting you Tui all night!

Banquet Bear, I apologize for not getting back to you on this post, especially given the amount of time it must have taken you to compose it. I’ve been unusually busy the last few days and haven’t felt that I had time to do it justice. I will try to return in the next day or so to address the points you made, but if not please know that read your post and will give serious consideration to what you have to say. This is not only because I respect you as a soldier, but because I owe you a beer. (And FWIW, I’ve forgotten also how I came to owe you a beer, but I’ve never forgotten that I do. So until that time, quaff a big ol’ tumbler of icy cold brew for me and know that I’ll be looking forward to the time when I can furnish you one (or a case) myself.)

[elucidator]

Great! Are you going to explain the CIA’s time machine as well? When your schedule allows?

[Zoe]

If the Bush Administration was correct that waterboarding “enhanced interrogation,” but didn’t torture, why did they use it on only three prisoners?

That really doesn’t make any sense.

And Starvin’ Fella, if you want things to be more like they were in the Fifties, you can’t be talking about torturing other people. You have American ideals of peace and brotherhood and prosperity to uphold. You have to set an example for other countries. Show 'em the American way! And be kind to your web-footed friends.

[rowrrbazzle]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

How about just practicing good journalism, period? How about ressurecting from the pissed-on ashes some semblance of a fourth estate?

Those ashes are just the IMAGE of a responsible press that the press themselves painted. There’s always been lots of shit mixed in with a few verified facts.

Some of my favorite quotes about the press:

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle.”

–Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Norvell (June 11, 1807)

“The fat Russian agent was cornering all the foreign refugees in turn and explaining plausibly that this whole affair was an Anarchist plot. I watched him with some interest, for it was the first time that I had seen a person whose profession was telling lies - unless one counts journalists.”

–Orwell, “Homage to Catalonia”

“He has the journalist’s air of being a specialist in everything, of taking in all points of view and being always on the side of the angels: he merely annoys a reader who has the least experience of knowing things, of what knowing is like.”

–C.S. Lewis, journal, July 1924

[Bruce_Wayne]

Daniel Schorr, Diane Rehm, and Terri Gross are all liberal. Neil from Talk of the Nation is the closest thing to right of center that you get on the daytime line up.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@rowrrbazzle

Those ashes are just the IMAGE of a responsible press that the press themselves painted. There’s always been lots of shit mixed in with a few verified facts.

Some of my favorite quotes about the press:

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle.”

–Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Norvell (June 11, 1807)

“The fat Russian agent was cornering all the foreign refugees in turn and explaining plausibly that this whole affair was an Anarchist plot. I watched him with some interest, for it was the first time that I had seen a person whose profession was telling lies - unless one counts journalists.”

–Orwell, “Homage to Catalonia”

“He has the journalist’s air of being a specialist in everything, of taking in all points of view and being always on the side of the angels: he merely annoys a reader who has the least experience of knowing things, of what knowing is like.”

–C.S. Lewis, journal, July 1924

It’s sort of nice how your opinion and three quotes alleviates the press from any burden of civic responsibility.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@Bruce_Wayne

Daniel Schorr, Diane Rehm, and Terri Gross are all liberal. Neil from Talk of the Nation is the closest thing to right of center that you get on the daytime line up.

So, what time at night do they air pieces with Juan Williams, Mara Liasson and also avoid the word torture?