What the fuck is happening in this thread? We have posters in 2014 defending torture and torturers, a practice every civilised country in the world finds unacceptable to the extent that it’s one of the few things, along with slavery, piracy and genocide, that are completely banned with no exceptions under peremptory norms by the international community. The same practices, e.g. waterboarding, that had men sentenced to death in the trials following WW2, are now being employed by the CIA and defended on these boards. You literally have to go back to the time of Charles I, the man who had a run in with Thomas Fairfax and Oliver Cromwell over his tyrannical rule and claims of divine right, to find a time when torture was last legally permitted in our joint legal tradition.
Has the American political situation become so polarised that torture must now be defended out of tribal loyalty to a given political party? Posters like Terr claiming, without shame, apparently, that they’d torture an 11 year old girl if they thought they’d have information necessary to protect America? What the fuck?
Ugh. That thread has turned into The Terr Show. GD was a lot better place when he was suspended.
But let’s remember that you’re going to find people like the OP is talking about in every country. I don’t think the US has cornered the market on such backward thinking, even if we may have more than our share.
Surprise probably isn’t the right word. It’s one thing to know there are people out there who commit unnatural acts with livestock, and quite another to realize that you’re speaking to one. Moreso when they’re unapologetic, don’t care who knows about it, and even seem to wear it as a badge of pride.
Terr is pleased at any chance to boast about his pig-fucking habit. Metaphorically speaking.
I couldn’t bring myself to read past page 2. Of course, that didn’t stop me from making a couple of comments of my own, on the material I did get through.
For some portion of America, unfortunately, torture has become a measuring stick for “how much do you oppose the terrorists”. If you don’t support torture, that means (according to this group) that you aren’t tough enough to do what it takes to fight terror.
It reminds me of the old ‘Democrats aren’t tough enough to face the commies’ sorts of arguments.
I’m not even a little bit surprised that there are still folks that defend torture . . . I am very surprised, saddened really, that there are still folks that want to argue that torture isn’t actually torture. The former is rejecting humanity, the later is rejecting reality.
I am not so naive as to think that the US practiced some form of coercive therapy prior to 9/11 in isolated incidents. In war, even good people do awful things. At the same time, what we have done since 9/11 will tarnish us as a people for many, many years to come. What can our Government say now when some other country tortures captured US personnel?
Worse, it appears that all of the torture that we did was ineffective and bungled worse than if we had hired Wiley E Coyote to administer the program. I am ashamed of how my country has acted. There is NO defense to this and these were war crimes.
I am watching with horror as people I thought I knew, people on my own facebook wall, are glibly defending the use of torture by the US Government. I can hardly believe it. I think part of it that they tend to be people who have had easy lives, folks who have never really suffered pain. Another part may be that they were all fans of the show “24” which I understand portrayed torture as a necessary evil quite often.
It is all just utterly repugnant to me. If this is what the USA is going to represent then I have some serious decisions to make.
ETA: was typing when you posted, Cadet. Great minds think alike.
The thread about the ISIL people who want to go back to France has several people advocating torturing or murdering them. There is another on judicial punishment where several people are basically going “yeah! you break the law we gonna ream your ass oh yeah!”
I want to file them under “Assholes, Internet variety”, but the thing is, whether they’re only this large a size of asshole when they’re anonimous, they’re trolling, or they also act like this in public, it’s still disgusting.
Put a hot branding iron in their hands and tell them to poke the bound terrorist and I bet 99.9% wouldn’t do it.
Most are reacting to the horror that they see daily on the Net and TV where groups like ISIS are beheading or executing helpless victims.
They are walking loud while carrying a very short stick. Their arguments really have nothing to do with whether or not torture can gain information and everything to do with reacting in fear over what they see.
It seems normal enough that fanatics, though relatively few, tend to glow hotter than their far more numerous and reasonable fellows. Personally, I think the world would be a better place if it were acceptable to punch the nose of someone who is being an obvious douchenozzle. Reasonable behavior includes lots of shades of gray, and you’re kind of obliged to let live if you want to live, but douchenozzlery is like obscenity: hard to define, but you know it when you see it.
I don’t understand people like this…don’t you understand that all the defense in the world is not worth our freedoms? Don’t you have any fucking pride? If you believe in the afterlife and you support torture I imagine there is a board waiting for you. If you don’t believe in the afterlife then you are knowingly advocating making the only place of existence terrible.
I suspect Terr of being a terrorist, I suggest he be water-boarded until he admits he is, then we will see what information he has. According to him this is worthwhile because if there is even a CHANCE he has information we should do anything we can to get it from him, right?
What about all those right-wings calling our current President a terrorist? Should we throw him in too?
Huh, yep. One of my “friends” posted something the other day that stated, not implied but stated, that if you are outraged about torture you are a traitor. A traitor. Let that sink in.
I don’t think it’s ‘24’ but I do think the media plays a huge part in this travesty. Turn on your TV to any show or movie that involves spies, police or suspense of some kind and you will probably see torture or extra-legal coercion. It’s everywhere. When the NCIS guys lie to get information, when Liam Neeson twists arms to find where his daughter is being kept, when James Bond tortures - we all cheer. We all see that torture works, quickly and effectively. We also see that the righteous, the good guys, can withstand torture for long periods of time and come out fresh and healthy.
If you want to blame the CIA for torturing people, I’m right there with you. Let’s make them pay for their crimes. But if you want to figure out why so many people think torture is a great idea that always works, you only need to turn on your TV.