Nuclear deal with Iran

[elucidator]

I don’t remember anyone shouting “Death to Iraq”, we just delivered. Is that more civil and polite, then?

[Bryan_Ekers]

How many merit badges would one need to untangle all the knots in D’Anconia’s argument?

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@D_Anconia

It’s NEVER ok to negotiate with terrorists. Full stop.

This thought process is like the Weekly World News - black and white and very silly.

[QuickSilver]

@D_Anconia

It’s NEVER ok to negotiate with terrorists. Full stop.

So shall we mark you down as “Opposed” to the US/NK summit in Singapore in June?

[elucidator]

He’s not going to negotiate, he’s simply going to sit down and tell them what’s what and what’s going to happen next, and how much they are going to love it, or else.

[QuickSilver]

@elucidator

He’s not going to negotiate, he’s simply going to sit down and tell them what’s what and what’s going to happen next, and how much they are going to love it, or else.

I suspect there might be some negotiations involving a Trump tower in Pyongyang.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@elucidator

He’s not going to negotiate, he’s simply going to sit down and tell them what’s what and what’s going to happen next, and how much they are going to love it, or else.

Followed shortly, no doubt, by the North Koreans describing a phone call they got from Trump begging them to agree to something, anything, so he’ll look successful.

[elucidator]

“Tell you what, we’ll release more prisoners.”
“You don’t* have *any more prisoners.”
“Easily fixed.”

[iiandyiiii]

D’Anconia hasn’t returned to the thread. Perhaps he’s having difficulty reconciling his principles with the fact that Trump has been gleefully negotiating with terrorists for months?

[Slash1972]

@iiandyiiii

D’Anconia hasn’t returned to the thread. Perhaps he’s having difficulty reconciling his principles with the fact that Trump has been gleefully negotiating with terrorists for months?

Yeah, I haven’t seen such destruction of a position on this board for a while. It was painful to read.

It’s really hard for people to declare “Trump is right to end the deal, we shouldn’t negotiate with terrorists!” while simultaneously supporting Trump negotiating with North Korea, since it was Trump who put NK on the State Sponsors of Terrorism list.

Pretty funny to see them try though.

[Ravenman]

Even if one seeks to deny that North Korea is a state sponsor of terrorism, let’s take a look at the President’s strategy for Afghanistan, as explained by the Deputy Secretary of State:
https://www.state.gov/s/d/2018/278003.htm

While in Kabul, I met with President Ghani, Chief Executive Abdullah, and other Afghan partners. Every leader reiterated their support for our strategy, and their commitment to creating the conditions that will bring the Taliban to the negotiating table and establish an environment for a sustained peace.

Let that soak in: according to Trump’s strategy, the way out of Afghanistan is through negotiations with the Taliban.

[bobot]

Some of them are very fine people.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@D_Anconia

It’s NEVER ok to negotiate with terrorists. Full stop.

So why have we been giving billions of dollars to Pakistan, a state sponsor of terrorism which also has actual nukes?

[elucidator]

Didn’t say it didn’t happen, just said it was never OK. Besides, everybody knows that was Hillary.

[septimus]

Iran is living up to the terms of the agreement. It has submitted to one of the most thorough inspection regimes ever devised by mankind.

The problem is that Iran’s regime is not regular. Look at what it’s been doing since the deal was signed. Even if uranium enrichment has been stopped, Tehran has continued, quite openly, to invest in its missile program. It has harassed foreign citizens.

Any other irregular regimes that continue to invest in offensive weapons and harass foreigners?

@Ravenman

… The point about Europe having an embarrassing diplomatic failure by not being able to convince Trump not to withdrawal is just… bizarre. It’s like saying that a wife should be embarrassed that her husband stepped out to cheat on her. In what way does Europe have the power or obligation to save the United States from itself?

Further, the mildly enamored talk of the U.S. throwing in with Israel and Saudi Arabia is also weird. Okay, Saudi is the least reliable of the bunch… but no mention of the plainly obvious point that U.S. interests with Europe run far deeper than those that bind the U.S., Israel, and Saudi Arabia? Talk about missing the whole fucking point! The U.S. is enmeshed in Europe to a degree so much greater than it is to the Middle East… its like trading down in terms of power centers.

That op/ed was weird. Not in the “I think your politics are loony” way, but in the “did you put five minutes of thought into that article, and were you drunk when you wrote it?” sort of weird.

++
Note that Saudi is at least as evil as Iran, and spends 13 times as much as Iran, per capita, on it military.

@RickJay

Whether you like it or not, everyone else involved in the deal thinks the United States made a deal. The peculiarities of U.S. law don’t mean shit to other other countries. The government of the United States of America made a deal, and so the other parties perceive the deal as being reneged upon.

… What a ridiculous world we’d live in if states and organizations could renege on agreements because there was turnover in the corner office.

++

@k9bfriender

You are right that countries will insist on getting full blown treaties …

Prior to trump, presidents usually honored multinational agreements, even if not ratified by the senate. With this change, it will be much harder for future administrations (and this one) to make deals and treaties, even ones that ultimately would be ratified by the senate.

The long-term damage Trump is doing to the power and prestige of the United States is gruesome and long-term. His godforsaken Administration will be regarded as one of history’s major turning points, like the 732 Battle of Poitiers, Mao’s Long March in 1935, the Sacking of Rome in 410, or the discovery of the New World in 1492.

@k9bfriender

… Why deal with the US, when China can actually honor their agreements? That’s the lesson that the world is taking from this.

Kim Jong-Un is certainly aware of this, and calculates accordingly. If the Donald is foolish enough to meet with him, Kim will play him like a pimp plays his stupidest whore.

[Horatius]

@D_Anconia

Have you ever seen or heard of Americans shouting “Death to Iran”, “Death to China”, or “Death to Russia”? :dubious:

No, Americans are more fond of “bomb them back into the stone age”.

[XT]

@Horatius

No, Americans are more fond of “bomb them back into the stone age”.

All Americans? Some Americans? Most Americans? What percentage of Americans are fond of this? Looked at objectively it must be a pretty small percentage, as Iran remains at least in the feudal age and un-bombed to date.

[QuickSilver]

@Horatius

No, Americans are more fond of “bomb them back into the stone age”.

Not to mention the always hilarious comedians Ronald Reagan and John McCain, declaring that missiles were heading towards Russia and bombs to Iran.

Oh, those wacky two American guys. Always with the kidding around.

I’m sorry D’Aconia won’t be returning to this thread. Shame he’s missing out on the good memories.

[QuickSilver]

@XT

All Americans? Some Americans? Most Americans? What percentage of Americans are fond of this?

Wild ass guess… approx. 63 Million. Give or take.

[Morgenstern]

@D_Anconia

It’s NEVER ok to negotiate with terrorists. Full stop.

You mean like the Iran nuclear deal?