[QUOTE=FXMastermind]
Ah, I think I finally see. The only thing that counts to the defender of the true nuclear faith, is if “the radiation itself” actually kills anyone.
[/QUOTE]
No, the only thing that counts to those of us who are looking at this rationally is an apples to apples comparison. If you want to compare tsunami related deaths at the nuclear power plant to tsunami related deaths for the entire event, that’s fine…that would be 2 deaths compared to over 14,000 deaths. If you want to compare current radiation deaths in Japan to the current deaths due to the event, that would be zero compared to…over 14,000. If you want to compare future deaths in Japan related to nuclear contamination causing various forms of cancer then we could compare that to future deaths related to other aspects of this disaster, or to other industries in Japan to do an apples to apples comparison over some agreed upon time frame.
But you don’t really want to do that, do you? You want to do an apples to aardvarks comparison because that’s the only way your fear fueled spew is going to be convincing. Every time someone has tried to engage you in a rational discussion, or give you rational facts about what’s going on you have gone into knee jerking sarcasm mode and handwaved it away…and then gone on to more fear crazed spewage. That seems to be your standard operating methodology.
If high levels of radiation actually kills somebody, or even makes them very ill, it would mean something is very wrong with the safety procedures. Running away is the best defense, and unless somebody is already injured, nobody should be near enough to high doses to die from this disaster. Or even get that sick.
The fears people have about radiation are not that it will kill them right away, but over time. The invisible and insidious nature of radioactive damage is part of the whole unease. People are used to being able to recognize and take action against threats. In fact, its a hallmark of civilization and civilized people that threats are dealt with swiftly and surely.
The very nature of some Cesium or Strontium silently entering the food chain, of slowly building up and causing cancers, that is the fear.
Even if a worst case scenario starts to happen, everyone will leave the area, pulling farther and farther back, nobody should die. The nuclear apologists will still be able to say nobody died from radiation. Even when nobody is within 50 miles of the place, due to radiation.
So trying to spin it as not bad, because nobody has died, is more than ludicrous. It’s actually quite insane.
It’s like trying to say the tsunamis weren’t that bad, in the places where everyone evacuated and nobody was killed. Even though the water destroyed everything, entire cities, if everybody got to high ground, then it wasn’t as bad as a coal power plant, which kills people.
That you can’t see how asinine such reasoning is, there isn’t any hope for you.
it is hoped (by TEPCO) that in nine months (if things go without problem) reactors 1,2,3 will be brought to a cold shutdown state and a covering put over what remains of the buildings to help contain radiation leaks.
each of the six reactors has a spent fuel pool (in the reactor buildings) and a seventh pool (combined for the total site) that need to have to have cooling restored.
reactor buildings of reactors 1 and 3 are far too radioactive for humans and the needed human work will have to wait. robots sent into reactor 2 were not able to stay long enough to get an accurate assessment of that building.
[QUOTE=FXMastermind]
If high levels of radiation actually kills somebody, or even makes them very ill, it would mean something is very wrong with the safety procedures. Running away is the best defense, and unless somebody is already injured, nobody should be near enough to high doses to die from this disaster. Or even get that sick.
[/QUOTE]
And yet, you and others have constantly been spewing about how high the radiation is…yet no one has died or even gotten very sick. So…if you are willing to concede that the radiation levels aren’t as high as you claimed outside of the reactors or reactor buildings themselves we could put that to rest and move on. You are acting like this discussion is not broken up into many separate side discussions, as more rational posters attempt to address the various spew coming out of folks such as yourself.
And as far as I know, no one is claiming that there will be zero health impact in the future. Over 29 workers or contractors at Fukushima have sustained in excess of 100 mSv in cumulative radiation dose. They all have an increased risk of cancer in the future…and, in fact, many other workers who have gotten less of a dose still have an increased probability of cancer in the future. So do many of the people who lived and work in the areas affected. No one is saying different, you jackass. But looked at rationally, the increased probability of some of those folks getting cancer is minor when weighed against the extent of the disaster that caused it…or even when weighed against OTHER insidious pollutants that will also kill some non-zero percentage of the Japanese population over the same time period. As has been explained to you over and over again.
But you aren’t interested in a rational comparison. You aren’t interested in a apples to apples comparison of risk. You aren’t interested in any sort of rational discussion at all. You are only interested in irrational, fear driven spew…with a side of trolling for 'dopers.
Which is why the Japanese were putting restrictions on raw milk and vegetables…restrictions that, with testing they are starting to phase out in some places. There will probably be some contamination that needs to be directly dealt with…there ARE remedial techniques to neutralize irradiated contaminants, you know?
No…if that happens it will be VERY bad. But, the thing is, that doesn’t seem to be the way this event is actually trending, contrary to the fear based spew you keep shoveling. It’s highly unlikely that there will be a perpetual 50 mile exclusion death zone at Fukushima. Granted, tomorrow they could have another 9.0 scale earthquake and resultant tsunami which could finish the plant off, open up the reactors and containment vessels completely, and wash highly irradiated materials all over the landscape…but it’s unlikely, and if nothing like that happens then you aren’t going to get the ‘worst case scenario’ happening. More likely, what you are going to get is the majority of the people who have been evacuated allowed back in during the next year or so, with spot anti-contamination needed to be done in areas of high concentrations…and the plant eventually entombed in concrete similar to Chernobyl.
You are the one doing the majority of the spin in these series of threads, guru. It’s been you and folks sympathetic to your views who have used deception and outright lies in an attempt to spin this in the worst possible light. It’s been you and your fellows who have built the strawmen instead of actually reading what others have posted. You might be fooling yourself or folks like gonzo, but you aren’t fooling anyone else with this kind of straw.
[QUOTE=johnpost]
reactor buildings of reactors 1 and 3 are far too radioactive for humans and the needed human work will have to wait. robots sent into reactor 2 were not able to stay long enough to get an accurate assessment of that building.
[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: See what I mean about deception? Why weren’t they able to stay longer? Well, because their lenses fogged up due to the high humidity in the reactors.
[QUOTE=FXMastermind]
OK I simply stopped reading at that point.
[/QUOTE]
And this is a change how? AFAICT you NEVER read through a whole post from anyone who disagrees with you. It might have to do with your pea sized brain, or it might have to do with your lack of concentration…who knows?
Again…you aren’t my target audience. You are an idiot…nothing is going to reach you or your fear and faith based stance on this. I gave up on actually discussing anything with you pages ago. Instead, I’ll continue to address your spew when I think it’s necessary. By and large you don’t really need my help to make your posts look like the idiotic ravings they are.
So being inside building #3 is like getting over 800 chest x-rays an hour.
This of course brings up the issue of radiation suits. Alpha and Beta can be blocked by a suit. So why is the radiation a problem inside the reactor buildings?
And of course, why is there so much radiation inside the buildings? Is it from leaking reactors? Leaking water? Is it from the fuel rods or the core?
Now your nuclear denier isn’t actually interested in discussing what is actually happening, what has happened.
Which is why I use the term “radiation denier” or “nuclear denier”. They will try to shift the conversation to something else. Which is probably why there isn’t a single coherent technical discussion here, of the real matters and events.
The deniers derail, sidetrack and turn any attempt to discuss an ongoing event into their own version of political football. Which is fine if that is the topic.
But the obsessive rage over any discussion of facts, that makes them look like fruitbats,
What I really like about you is the sheer lack of self-awareness with which you ridicule yourself. I’d have to work at posts that caricature the nature of your idiocy in such a mocking way, but for you it’s completely effortless.
[QUOTE=FXMastermind]
Now your nuclear denier isn’t actually interested in discussing what is actually happening, what has happened.
[/QUOTE]
As opposed to you who, despite purportedly participating in multiple of these discussions, and despite the fact that you’ve been given myriad cites, still don’t seemingly know what the fuck is going on.
Gee, I don’t know…perhaps because the buildings basements are full of highly radioactive contaminated water? Just a guess there, chief…
Because they poured tons and tons of water on the reactors in an effort to keep them cool? Perhaps because of the leaks they have mentioned several times? You know…all this stuff we’ve discussed and been discussing for, oh, nearly a month now?
:smack:
Or, it could be because you just spew out a stream of consciousness brown goo resembling diarrhea into every thread you post in, and the subject gets changes as posters attempt to address your various rantings? I’m thinking that’s more likely.
Well, crazy people always think that what they are saying is rational while what others are trying to beat through their meter thick skulls is crazy. You are like a case study of the phenomena…
Only totally insane right wingers who believe corporations are our friends and would never do anything to hurt people to make more money. The people who believe what big money says, because dog-gone-it, they are looking over us benevolently. They are our loving overlords who never do wrong. I guess I mean Fox fans.
Well, there is where we differ. I don’t make any claims to know what anyone else is doing, much less a claim that “most people” are doing anything. Because in reality land, I can’t know any such thing.
Of course neither can you, but that didn’t stop you from making such a ludicrous statement. People like you never let pesky facts get in their way.
[QUOTE=FXMastermind]
Well, there is where we differ. I don’t make any claims to know what anyone else is doing, much less a claim that “most people” are doing anything. Because in reality land, I can’t know any such thing.
[/QUOTE]
Um…moron? We can actually LOOK BACK AT THE POSTS IN THE THREADS AND GAUGE THE RESPONSES! Are you stupid, or what? I know, I know…you didn’t realize that people COULD go back and actually read what was written. That’s been obvious many times as you say something and then contradict yourself later, or build a strawman argument only to have it pointed out that no one actually said what you thought they said. Of course, that also seems to be the case for the various cites you have posted, since a large percentage of the time it doesn’t look like you actually bothered to read the fucking things and attempt to absorb what they were saying.
Gods…you have got to be one of the stupidest human beings I’ve ever encountered. Of course, there is another…
[QUOTE=gonzomax]
I guess I mean Fox fans.
[/QUOTE]
Always the last resort of the lame. You probably watch and read Fox more than I do, gonzo.
