NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} [9/21/2022]

Or Rudy G? He’s the last man standing I think.

Yeah, Mr Trump - name them. Just name one, please, pretty please, so we can all go look up your so-called effing “scholar”. I am sure they are top men. Top. Men.

Hey, they went through Harvard.

In a car.

That drove past the law school’s law library.

They did look in the windows, though, so there’s that.

They’re busy shaking those funds out of Mexico to pay for the beautiful wall that was built during the most successful administration in the history of us the US.

Except with him, asking no questions is no guarantee of no lies.

Surely you mean “the piece of the wall”, right?

Another brick in the wall, yes.

       And when they’ve given you their all
       Some stagger and fall
       After all it’s not easy
       Banging your heart against
       Some mad bugger’s wall

How has trump not been jailed for contempt of court, or for disobeying the gag order, yet? Should someone start a “when will trump spend a night in jail” wager? Quote from this article:

But on the witness stand, the charged rhetoric was even more remarkable, as he attacked the judge sitting right next to him, with James in the courtroom watching his testimony just feet away.

“The fraud is on the court, not on me,” Trump said.

“It’s a terrible thing you’ve done,” he said to the judge. “You believe this political hack back there and that’s unfortunate.”

Nobody but trump could verbally attack a judge to their face, on the stand, and not get thrown in jail for the night. Right? What is Judge Engoron waiting for-- is he thinking that putting trump in jail would just add to the distraction of the circus atmosphere that already surrounds the trial, and is just not worth it?

IIRC, the actual gag order is very narrow and limited to court staff. There is nothing in the order that prevents Trump from attacking the judge, the prosecutor, or the process.

I do think anyone else would be sanctioned for contempt for insulting the judge, but I think this judge thinks that would be playing into Trumps tiny hands,

For the judge to think that sanctioning trump would play into his tiny hands suggests that trump has a master plan behind his in-court and on-camera rants. His rants are playing well to his supporters, I’m sure. But the judge should not care whether trump is scoring political points outside the courtroom by being held in contempt of court. He’s already scoring points with his supporters by being verbally abusive to the judge and getting away with it, anyway. The judge should deal with an unruly defendant the same way he would any other. In a circus atmosphere such as this though, I can understand why the judge may be reluctant.

What purpose would be served by responding? Other than to allow more basis for claims of bias?

I can attest how difficult it is to keep your mouth shut when a witness/party/atty clearly lies or directly insults you or the proceeding. But to date I have NEVER gotten in trouble for what I DIDN’T say, but have (infrequently) received allegations of bias or non-judicial behavior based on remarks I felt entirely temperate and warranted at the time. And if you attempt to shut them up, THAT can be alleged as bias.

Let them say (pretty much) what they want, don’t comment, and issue the decision you feel appropriate.

Trump is trying to prod the judge into making an appealable error. He wants the judge to blow up at him to support a bias argument on appeal.

The judge isn’t buying it. He’s protecting his staff and the court process, while letting the insults to him flow off like water on a duck’s back.

It’s far better to have the appellate judges comment in obiter that the judge was faced with an unruly witness that he handled fairly, than to have Trump’s lawyers point to a blowup as evidence of bias.

Because it would demonstrate that there are certain rules of decorum that must be practiced in a court of law, and that no man is above the law?

I get this, but the judge doesn’t need to ‘blow up’ or get visibly angry-- he could just announce in a calm, judicial voice, “mr. trump has been repeatedly warned against his actions. Now he must face the consequences”.

trump and his lawyers will likely try to appeal no matter what-- if any contempt action against trump was clearly warranted, it shouldn’t give a plausible reason for the verdict to be overthrown on appeal. I would think, anyway…? But I’m not a lawyer, and thank God for that :smile:

I suspect the judge is going to deal with Trump simply by issuing a very harsh ruling based on the fact that Trump and his clan were unwilling or unable to bring any useful testimony into the proceeding to oppose or counter the state’s assertions. Harsher treatment may be theatrically satisfying in the short term, but a judgment which simply says “the state brought evidence X, the respondents chose to waste their time on the stand on irrelevancies which did not address the evidence, the court therefore finds ample cause to dissolve the Trump businesses in their entirety” will be very satisfying in the long run.

Agree. Maybe the judge also sees letting Trump have his unhinged maunderings as a way to gather more material for his final judgement. Just let the idiot talk - he is likely to let some small facet slip that is not only captured for all to hear, but could be useful in the case against him.

Yes, the judge can use whatever Trump says or does on the stand as a factor in credibility assessments, which are very difficult to set aside on appeal.

Yeah — for example, I noticed in his testimony that when he was asked the direct question “who at Trump Org is responsible for detecting fraud,” he answered flippantly, “everyone.” In his mind, this was a way of deflecting accountability from himself, but it also rather neatly blew up the entirety of his sons’ attempts to deflect accountability from themselves. :smiley:

Legally, if Trump, during one of his rants inadvertently said something incriminating that was not relevant to the civil trial, could that be used as evidence by other prosecutors in other cases against Trump or his accomplices?

Would this be one reason to let him rant?

Oh, it would be so satisfying to see trump spend a night in jail.

If the judge is playing out a 'give ‘em enough rope to hang themselves with’ strategy, then I guess I’ll just have to be patient.