I guess because they thought he was pointing a gun at them. But I don’t know- maybe this will make more sense after an investigation.
That’s what it seems like. The reports I’ve seen make it seem like the guy was trying to commit suicide. First he was running in front of cars. When the cops showed up he pretended to have a gun to try and get them to shoot him. When the cops realized he wasn’t armed they did taze him.
Yes it’s ridiculous.
I thought about asking for a cite on that and then thought what the hell, I’ll look for myself.
Damn the stupidity. 12# pull on a 2# weapon. It’s amazing they can even qualify on the range. Just another reason to cross NY off my vacation destination list.
The NYPD has a choice of several different pistols including the Glock. All have to be double action only with a 12 lbs pull. Supposedly it is to prevent negligent discharge. Any one with any common sense knows the real way to prevent ND is with training but I guess its easier to cripple the gun.
I would hardly characterize the NYPD as crippled when it comes to shooting their guns.
Just their ability to shoot them effectively.
What is your point? In your link they shot and kill (justifiably) a man with a knife. They were at a distance close enough to pepper spray the guy. Sure I was obviously using hyperbole when I said it crippled the guns. But go ahead and prove me wrong that it makes it much more difficult to fire and makes missed shots much more likely. I’m sure with your vast knowledge of firearms you will have no problem proving me wrong.
I agree with your points in general, but we do know how far away the cops were, because there’s a (very grainy) video of the shooting in the **aceplace’s ** link.
About 10 seconds in the big guy goes down, only to pop back up again and start running around. Was this a Tasering that didn’t do much?
CHILL OUT. This is MPSIMS. Not great debates and not the pit.
Look, what the NYPD wants, they get. (I live in NYC btw) If they really wanted a -6 pound pull on the trigger they would get it. They all seem pretty OK with this issue.
Do you know where this regulation comes from? I don’t. I would think that a police commissioner (an actual NYPD office) came up with the idea.
Did Mayor Bloomberg come up with this and force it on the cops? Do you have cite?
Chill out? Really? Just because its MPSIMS you are supposed to be able to drop a link and no explanation without anyone questioning you?
Are you equating what the commissioner wants (a political appointee) to what the rank and file of the NYPD wants? The mayor may get what he wants, the NYPD does not.
The regulation comes from when they transitioned from revolvers to semi-automatic pistols. It was supposedly to lower the number of negligent discharges. Maybe it did. Maybe it didn’t but at least changing the trigger pull gives the illusion of doing something about the problem during lawsuits. But anyone who knows anything about firearms knows to lower the instance of handling related accidents the only answer is more training and range time. Which requires overtime, pay for instructors and money for ammo.
As far as I can tell the mayor didn’t issue a press release. They just did it. Googling “NYPD trigger pull” will give you multiple pages of cites. The Glock normally has a 5.5 lbs trigger pull. The NYPD has at least a 12lbs pull. That’s like pulling on a bowling ball every time you want to fire.
We used to be issued S&W Sigmas. Besides the fact that it was a shitty gun that jammed regularly it had a heavy (not nearly as heavy as the NYPD) and very long trigger pull. Every time I went to qualify I lost at least a few rounds. If I wasn’t concentrating perfectly and using the exact proper technique I would jerk a round over the target. And that was on the range with no adrenaline. Thankfully we have Glocks now.
The NYPD is the only agency I know of that uses that heavy trigger pull. Which is why Glock calls it the “NY trigger*.” Bottom line, if you require a ridiculously heavy trigger pull you are going to have more missed shots, especially in high stress situations.
*There are actually 2 NY triggers. The 8lbs pull was for the New York State Police, the 12lbs is for the NYPD. And by trigger they mean the spring which controls the trigger pull. Glock is not the only weapon they can use but all of them have a 12lbs trigger and are modified to be double action only.
and after looking at your links, for a minute, I came to this one.
So not speculation on what it is like to use that version, but from a guy that actually uses one.
Do you have any cites that show that NYPD is less accurate than police with the weaker pull?
NO?
Just your feeling, as a gun user, that it must be less accurate.
Have you ever used a 12lb pull on a glock?
The police in America only use beanbag rounds when confronted with a 95 year old man sitting in a chair waving around a cane and a shoe horn. :rolleyes:
Good call. You found the other department that has concurrent jurisdiction as the NYPD who uses the NY trigger. And has the same political pressures.
Did you look at those pages and pages of cites of multiple experienced shooters talking about how it makes you less accurate? There are a few outliers but very few think its a good idea.
No I have not used the Glock with the 12lbs trigger. As I stated earlier I used a S&W Sigma in the past with a heavier trigger pull. The Sigma was a Glock copy. There was a lawsuit that was settled out of court when S&W agreed to make some changes (undisclosed as part of the settlement). Maybe they are different now but the model I had was almost identical to the Glock. Except it was more cheaply made (and cheaper in price) and misfed much more often. So no, I have not fired the exact same model as the NYPD. But I do have very similar experience with weapons. And I have fired pistols with various trigger pulls. Heavier trigger pulls make it much easier to jerk a round under ever ideal range conditions.
Have you ever used any pistol?
I’m sure that call should have been handled differently but I do like how you left out the part where it escalated after he picked up a 12 inch knife. Editing is fun!
Yes, I have fired pistols, and rifles. Never fired a shotgun.
Oh, but old people are totally harmless and they should have waited a minute, and he’d have dozed off peacefully.
/sarcasm
(When my mother-in-law was in the hospital to have 3 stents out in around her heart, age mid-70s and frail enough that she couldn’t walk their English setter for fear of being pulled off he feet, she was suffering from some hospital-induced psychosis. She assumed she was in a hotel. That was all fine and good (barring her scratching/pulling at the tape on her IV) until she decided to “check out.” Apparently it took 4 staff members to subdue her as she violently resisted being detained.)
Oh come on… that’s not exactly sisyphean … they train on and with it all the time…
People are very inaccurate with handguns in real world situations. NYPD and LAPD accuracy rates hover in the 30% range for all rounds fired. Nearly 70% of all shots by those two police departments miss their intended target. It is not any different for most of the other police departments that publish that kind of data.