And doesn’t he just reek of Piggy? Actually wasn’t he one of Piggy’s heirs-in-waiting?
I dunno, like him or loathe him, Muldoon at least stood for something he believed in. Most of it was Albanian style state control of everything and Think Big, which was in retrospect economically ruinous, but he was a product of his times: for all his cult of personality, he was pre-spin and had a certain honesty which still appeals - and I’d still rate him above Lange as a politician, if not as a person.
Winston Peters is a pale imitation, a carefully tailored media package who stands for anything he thinks will get him elected. Muldoon had a genuine empathy with “Rob’s Mob”, but I suspect Peters, who is a very clever man, secretly despises anyone stupid enough to support him: which, of course, makes him all the more despicable.
You hit the nail on the head there, Case Sensitive. Winston’s antics have been shown up of late in the Herald (which seems to have taken a bit of a miffed dislike toward him) including him berating a local group he spoke to for not getting things organised properly for him. Poor show, that man. Muldoon, although I did not like the guy towards the end, had a charm about him, even when drunk and announcing snap elections while under said influence.
ACT looks like they’re heading for the plughole, thankfully, but one never knows with MMP how things will go. Same with Destiny. They kissed off the Greens before the last election – and they came in anyway.
Just interested in what you guys thought of Mondays “debate” (seemed more like a shout-a-thon) but it showed Clarks experience. Brash came of as second best (to me) especially during the nuke and Maori seats bit.
The Nats were campaigning on the footpath as I was going to work this morning, I almost felt like giving them a sympathy toot…almost.
Well the Nats played “sweet Home Alababma” ??? The labour party had Sam Neil and Che Fu (popular NZ hip hop dude), the music choice alone speaks to who they represent.
Brash is a very weak speaker but the tax cut bribes may work.
On re-reading this thread I have ti agree with Case about Winston. The man is the consumate politician. He needs the job and he knows exactly how to keep the job.
While I really hope that neither National or Labour use him as kingmaker, I am not entirely sorry knowing he will still be a MP. He is a self serving bastard but when he is not in govt he is a keen eyed whistle blower. I just want to know why the fuck he keeps going up in the polls! Let the grannies vote him in. He is enough showman/shyster/self interested blowhole to be an MP but JEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ stop increasing his poll percentage! He ain’t going away till the last blue rinse in Tauranga carks it, but must we encourage him?
I am really not sure about the tax cut bribes working. When I left NZ my perception was that people were fairly happy with paying the taxes as they stood at that time. This was just after the last general election. As a nation I suspect we don’t mind paying taxes, provided we believe they are being spent correctly.
Contrast that to here. In this state at least, military spending a-ok. Spending any money at all on healthcare or education frowned on - at least by the voting majority.
Peters? He is going to own the Tauranga seat until he dies. One can only hope that his party percentages go down. A long way down. It always surprisd me that people could not see the manufactured xenophobia he spouts for what it is. I even doubt that he actually holds many of these views himself - he merely uses them to gain political points.
I don’t think anybody really notices it much any more. It’s just the “done thing.” There was, predicatably, a lot of hoo-hah about it when it came in, and equally predicably, the first MMP election was a dog’s breakfast. Since then, it’s run pretty smoothly. I genuinely doubt that there would be much support for switching back; I think the mood would be, why bother?
Regarding the wider issue of the election, and the choice of leaders …
Don Brash just seems smarmy to me; and I have strong doubts about the affordability of the new National tax plan. Considerable distrust from me.
Jim Anderton … seems to change parties every election or two. Every time his current party starts to stray from what he wants, he leaves and ends up forming a new party. That said, what he stands for doesn’t seem to shift.
Winston Peters is probably the most charismatic man in parliament, and has the most potential to be a great PM. However, he doesn’t have the ethics. I voted for him once. Never again.
Helen Clark is, I think, a deeply unattractive person, on several counts. However, she does seem to be competent as a PM.
In short, none of them are what I’d call model choices. Under similar circumstances, I often end up voting for one of the lunatic fringe (like McGillicuddy Serious), on the grounds of:
[ul]
[li]They haven’t a chance of winning, so it’s an effective vote against everyone else; and[/li][li]Wouldn’t it be a hoot if they did win?[/li][/ul]
This time, though, I suspect I’m likely to go Labour as the best of a lot of poor choices.
Back when Jim Anderton first formed New Labour I went to see him speak. He was remarkably…uninspiring. I liked his ideas, but found the man something of a wet fish.
Having said that I am really not that interested in charismatic leaders. I would far prefer someone I know is competent. Do I like Helen Clark? I do not find her particularly personable, but I do think she is more than competent. Winston Peters could perhaps even be competent in his own (screwed up) way. But whenever I see a leader with ‘charisma’ I have a tendency to automatically mistrust them even more than I mistrust your aaverage run-of-the-mill politician.
Well said UnwrittenNocturne.
I just think this last week proves Don Brash is neither competent nor charismatic. Helen competely shut him out, in the TV1 debate…but that was because she was a woman?!. He is very good at foot-in-mouth moments. The forestry policy debacle was another typical Brash moment.
His tax cuts policy seemed to be overshadowed by his lack of experience. He seems to spoil any wins with major gaffs.
Winston please shut up…or at least acknowledge that only the Nats would be willing to have you as a coalition party!
…so Kiwi Dopers, what’s your drink of choice?
According to the Frenzi Group Labour voters drink Chardonnay, National drink Beer, the Greens eat seafood and NZ First supporters prefer Lamb Shanks. (And from personal experience, this is pretty close to reality! )
I’m a soft drink man, but when it comes to alcoholic beverages, I’d choose a beer… ( Xport Dry, if its handy ) so that makes me a :: shudder :: National Party supporter! Although if Lamb Shanks were on the menu, I would go for them first!
Hmmm. I’m a beer drinker initially, then I move to wine (though I avoid chardonnay, I prefer an NZ savignon blanc if I can get it), then sometimes I move on to spirits.
I eat seafood rather than lambo shanksters, and although I agree in principal with a “green” way of life, I am a non-practicing greeny who would probably prefer voting for Labour.
And so we come to it, the great election of our time. A few thoughts…
Winston has fought a shocker of a campaign: for someone who coasts on charisma, being surly and refusing to talk to the press is a bad move. Loks like he could really be gone this time.
Labour’s fought a surprisingly weak campaign: reacting rather than acting, and cruising on the same tired catchphrases. “Forward. Together.” is a really bad slogan: makes Newspeak sound mellifluous {plus I want to add Twirling}.
National’s been surprisingly strong: Don’s lost out in the debates to Ms. Bossyboots, but a very effective billboard campaign, and they haven’t been scared to take the fight to Labour.
Scandals and faux pas: call it a draw. Don knew about the Exclusive Brethren camapaign - not a good look - but the cost of Labour’s student loan bribes had to be pried out of them by the Ombudsman - also not a good look.
And they’re heading neck and neck into the final straight: anyone’s race, although I have a feeling Labour are going to take it. Act’s gone, if Winston loses NZ First will fragment, the Greens are going to take a big hit in the List seats, and the Maori Party - who knows?
Remember: vote early, vote often.
First of all - a post about NZ politics!!! Yeah!
Seriously, I am thinking about voting no confidence. But I’ll probably lamé it out and give it to Labour. I think Helen has done an okay job of running the country. So when I finish work in an hour, I’m heading off to the polling spot.
And this is the first time I’ve been able to vote, so it’s pretty exciting. I’m kinda disappointed I don’t get to vote for Bartett though 
That would be totally cool. And yes I know he’s not a real person…
There’s an election night drinking game floating around somewhere as well - it’s pretty funny. I look forward to playing it tonight at our election party
I went Labour/Labour in the end. No McGillicuddy’s candidate here in Roskill, although Legalise Cannabis put the bong down long enough to register: they’ll probably forget to vote for themselves, though.
I voted for the Greens. I hope they’ll come in at around 5/6% and work as a moderating influence in Labour. I’m in Helen Clark’s electorate, so my candidate vote was a bit of a non issue - she’s gonna take it no matter how I vote.
I have friends in Epsom who, despite being staunch Labour supporters, are looking at giving their electoral vote to the National candidate (Richard Worth?) in order to shut Rodney Hide down. Tactical voting feels dirty, somehow.
I think this is the ACT party’s last hurrah, and I won’t be surprised to see NZ First disappear down the political gurgler too.
Election Night Drinking Game Funny stuff.
National (41%) appears to be polling just ahead of Labour (39%) at the moment from what I can see on the elections result site.
She’s split 50/50, at the moment: looks like it’s going to have to go to the special votes, so it may be a couple of weeks before we get a definite result.
ACT are toast - yes!
Winston lost his seat {yay!}, but hangs on due to his list position {boo!} Wasn’t he pissed, though?
The Greens polled better than I thought.
Looks like the Maori Party picked up 4 seats: am I prescient, or what?
Destiny seems to have got about .5% of the vote: roo-ted!
So now it comes down to counting special votes, and horse-trading for coalition partners: Winston’s said he’ll go with whoever has an outright majority, but I don’t trust him to keep his word: if he and ACT broker a deal with the Nats, they could trump Labour and the Greens {and the Maori Party, who’ll go with Labour in the end}. Anyone’s game at the moment…
Ain’t MMP a jolly good thing. Here we are, all votes (bar the specials) and we don’t know who the govt is. Make the fuckers work!
To me it looks like a Lab/Green/Jim govt…YAYYYYYYYY
I was surprised Dover Samuels and John Tamihere lost. I am verrrrrrry sad that I seem to live in a Nat electorate now (I’m Northcote AND Hartley deserved to lose).
Congrats to Labour though. It looks like Helen is still PM . YAYYYYYYYY