:dubious: This is a whoosh, right?
Fuck no it isn’t. I see absolutely no evidence of racism on the Oathkeepers website. I do, though, see a Master Sergeant named Gomez on their Board of Directors. Now, unless he’s a blue-eyed, blond descendant of Northern Spanish nobility who is against all of the bean-eating brown people in the Southwestern U.S., I don’t think that a racist organization would have a Gomez on their Board of Directors.
Then you are a liar.
Really Not All That Bright:
Compare that to:
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/
If they’re trying to recruit like minded people they could have not included those parts… I thought white separatists would want government to be different in other ways.
How can you know what Argent Towers saw? I can’t see evidence on the website either. I didn’t look at every word on the website though. Perhaps you could point to where the racism is.
BTW, look at the “supporters of Oath Keepers” flash animation in the right column,
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/03/03/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/
There is JPFO:
http://www.jpfo.org/
“JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP - America’s Most Aggressive Defender
of Firearms Ownership”
Also, on the JPFO site it says:
BTW, about the comments on the orders we will not obey:
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/03/03/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/
A liar? I’m just pointing out what I saw on the website, which was NO evidence of racism whatsoever. I already made the points that I feel prove it; the man on the Board of Directors named Gomez, for one, plus the things that JohnClay brought up (the Jewish group.) There’s my evidence and I think it’s pretty solid. A racist group is not going to allow Mexicans or Jews to have any part in their movement.
You can call me a liar till the Cubs win the World Series; but I think the points I’ve made speak for themselves. If you’d like to debate them in a civilized way - addressing the evidence with counter-arguments that actually have proof behind them instead of hyperbole and emotion - without resorting to calling me a liar, then do so.
wouldn’t a call to a return to the “Good Ol’ Days” of the Constitutional Republic (a meme I’ve seen thrown about the last few monthson FB) mean a return to second class citizenship for non-white citizens? Wasn’t that part of the deal?
And I am willing to bet that the uniform patches shown above are not actually on an active duty service members uniform.
Also, how come nobody seems to be addressing the question of where these guys were when Bush was doing the exact same things they question? i’m confused…
The Patriot movement isn’t particularly white separatist. There’s certainly some overlap, and some of the rhetoric they use is similar, but they’re not the same people.
Even the SPLC, talking about them, says:
which accuses the modern Patriot movement of being racialized, but says that before Obama, it wasn’t primarily motivated by race hate.
Great. Now we’ve completely deviated from how they living in a fantasyland of “defending constitutionalism” in which the “oathkeeper” disregards that part of the oath is to obey the constitutionally-elected civilian government (and deliberately ignores that the issue of constitutionality of seccession, nullification etc. have long been settled in favor of the Feds), and instead drifted into a “Did! Did Not! Did, Too” argument and citefest to prove whether anyone’s seeing racism in it.
Because, of course, whether it’s “racist” v. “not racist” trumps everything…
They’re not white supremacists. They are/were certainly white separatists.
The Patriot movement is very closely tied to the Christian Identity movement. See here.
This is Great Debates and there is an explicit rule prohibiting calling other posters liars.
This is a Warning to refrain from doing this again.
[ /Moderating ]
Jews for the Preservation of Firearms are a bunch of weirdos and crazies and is not actually a Jewish group, despite the name. Members include Larry Pratt and Jack McLamb.
I don’t believe either are actual members, although Jack McLamb was made an honorary member. And while the group is a bunch of weirdos and crazies, they are largely Jewish weirdos and crazies (even though non Jews can join). Its founder, Aaron Zelman, is Jewish.
I have read they’re attached with velcro.
I was just clarifying the intention behind my earlier comment (mostly facetious) about who the Oathkeepers (and their ilk) consider “American”. I said they only consider “un-hyphenated” Americans to be “American”. It was a joke. Maybe not funny, maybe not even very well thought out (as I realized from Brain Glutton’s response: “You mean like Anglo-Saxons?”), but just a snarky comment that I based on the clueless and offensive views many “Super-Patriots’” (e.g. the Oathkeepers, the Birthers, Sarah Palin, etc.) seem to have about exactly which Americans are “Real Americans”.
Sorry. I was going back and forth between this board and another (with no rules to speak of). Must have got confused.
I rather suspect the “Patriot” movement is somewhat conflicted about Jews. Some are antisemites, and also consistent isolationist paleocons who don’t want the U.S. supporting Israel, nor any other foreign country; others believe in the “War on Terror” and foursquare support for Israel as part of that; and some are probably Christian Zionists.
About their “No Guns For Negroes” video… (which can be seen online)
“JPFO is proud to announce its latest Movie Made possible by our members and supporters”
It is made by JPFO yet the video basically just features African-American people…
It’s an interesting 20 minute video which supports the idea of law-abiding African Americans owning guns… and how the government tries to disarm them…
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ngn-download-view.htm