Obama and the Civil Rights Establishment

A recent AFP article has suggested: Obama’s toughest sell for White House bid may be to other blacks. The article’s main subject is that the civil rights establishment is lukewarm about Barak Obama because:

The article, which includes only interviews and no polling on the subject, recognizes that: “African-Americans however, who are are accustomed to leaders who emerge from the civil rights movement, sometimes appear to struggle to relate to Obama.”

To me, one of Obama’s most important aspects of being a credible Black candidate for President is that he is not part of the civil rights movement (or perhaps, more accurately, came of political age in the post-civil rights movement era). As such, he does not appear to view and express issues through a lens of racial injustice. Similarly, he is not loaded with the baggage (to the white populace) of the civil rights movement. He presents himself as a down-to-earth intellectual, and not with the strong cadences of the civil rights preacher-leaders.

Although he is criticized by some of those quoted in the article for the purported inauthenticity of his Black experience, his first book, Dreams from my Father, focuses on how he dealt with growing up Black in America and his experiences a political organizer in an almost entirely Black neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago. Although his upbringing was not that of the stereotypical Southern rural or Northern urban Black, it is apparent from his writing that he has strong, first-hand experience of the difficulties and discrimination faced by Blacks in this country and cares deeply about racial issues and reconciliation.

It seems to me that there is a strong element of jealousy in the comments of the civil rights leaders quoted in the article, or perhaps more charitably, a feeling that Obama is coasting into an opportunity that is only available because of their unacknowledged hard work. To the extent that civil rights leaders claim to speak for all American Blacks, the emergence of someone like Obama outside their orbit threatens their claim.

To the extent that a Black candidate aspires to national office, he or she must appeal to more White voters than Black voters, and thus cannot be seen to be focused primarily on Black issues. Thus, Obama, Powell and Rice have national potential, where someone like Sharpton (his other faults aside) do not. I can’t see how racial divisiveness and pandering would play outside a primarily Black constituency.

Although some of the civil rights leaders seem to be crying in their beer that one of them isn’t likely to be the first credible Black Presidential candidate, I don’t know why any other of the serious candidates would have stronger Black appeal.

So, is this article just an attempt to come at Obama from a different angle then deluge of stories positioning him as the Great Black Hope, or is there really discontent with Obama among the Black “leadership”? And more significantly, what is the view of the Black voter on the street?

I think you’re right, and I can’t add anything to what you’ve said. I think the majority of white voters are perfectly willing to elect a black president if, and only if, they’re convinced that the condidate thinks of himself as an American first, black second.

Man I love Great Debates like this. Please everyone else feel free to chime in as to how correct I am. :wink:

Totally correct, Bill. You go, girl! Luv ya!

I would agree that the civil rights leaders would feel more than a little jealousy about Obama, but it would mainly be sour grapes. I would also agree that he has a better chance than any of them do because of his lack of association with the civil rights movement. Whether or not this plays with Middle America is the question. His lack of experience playing the Big Room will hurt him more than his race in the cities, but the Heartland will still vote color. He really needs to roll the dice and find a hot issues to make his own, for better or worse.

Bill roolz!

Oh, this is getting tiresome.

OK, I’ll give you some grief: do you agree that Black leaders in this country are so self-interested and ego-driven that when they finally get a candidate with broad appeal beyond the race demographic that they’re too full of bile and jealousy to see how an A-A candidate who maybe can get elected might be a good thing for their own interests, if not their own careers personally? How low an opinion of Black leaders do you have anyway?

Near as I can figure, from the article and from Billdo, the old-school black leaders resent Barack because he was not there, on the streets of Birmingham and Memphis, marching for equality. They’re saying it’s mostly because his black father was Kenyan, not American.

I believe this is short-sighted. Obama was just a kid when that stuff happened. For that matter, every black politician under a certain age was born too late to have the same experiences the older leaders had. Does that mean that the younger guys don’t have the street cred their elders have? No, it means the old guys did great things in their time to bring about change, so Obama’s generation wouldn’t have to go through the same struggles.

The job isn’t finished, of course, but it will never again be the same as it was in the 50s and 60s.

This is a good thing for Obama. The more he can distance himself from the one trick pony “Civil Rights Establishment” the better. If the self-appointed (or media-appointed) Black leaders don’t like him, so much the better. Blacks in general do, and Whites do, too. Jackson or Sharpton would be lucky to get 10% of the White vote if they were on the national ballot. What does that tell us?

You know, John, this is actually quite brilliant. Obama meets with Jax, with Sharp privately, and they agree that at the meeting’s end, the old-fart black leaders will walk out and denounce this young upstart to the press “Damn boy don’t understand what the Black struggle is all about, he’s disrespectful to us” yyybbb, and galvanize white America: “Hmmm… maybe this black guy isn’t so bad, look how he pisses Jesse and the Rev Al off…”

I don’t think it’ll quite play out like that. Most Democratic candidates pay a certain amount of lip service to Jackson and I’m sure Obama will, too. If the majority of Black voters rally behind Obama, the “Black Establishment” will be right there getting at the front of the line. He’ll do better with Whites, though, if Jackson and the like aren’t fawning over him from the start, and I’m sure he’ll go his seperate way once he’s paid the initial lip service. What does Obama need Jackson ro Sharpton for? And if Sharpton runs again, like he often does, then he’s just another opponent.

Certainly he already has on the talk show circuit, speaking about his and Jesse Jackson’s families are very close, etc …

In a previous thread various BlackDopers expressed the sentiment that he was embraced by Blacks despite his White upbringing and his lack of heritage with the American Black experience not only because of his looks but because he married a Black woman, has Black kids, and goes to a Black church.

But yes, he is running as President of all of America, not for head of the Black caucus. His being labelled as Black and his embracing of that label certainly won’t hurt him with Black voters. But one hopes that they’ll vote not for color but for stand on the issues and leadership capacity anyway. And there his honest core religious values coupled with an understanding of the importance of seperartion of Church and State, will go far I think.

I’m sorry, I just can’t my mind past the brilliance I’m seeing. Say he’s got a 90+ % approval rating with black voters, which is probably right, and there’s a hard floor of 85% that he can’t possibly go below, not even if he comes out of the closet and has a DWI incident on the same day it’s revealed that he spent 5 years in a mental institution, which may be a slight exaggeration. But because there are so many more white voters than blacks, he realizes that the more offensively he behaves towards the black community, their perceived interests, their issues, he gains massive support among white voters while maintaining that 85% floor among blacks, who’ll support him no matter. So his strategy becomes to “alienate” as many black voters as possible, and be seen as courageous, his own man, etc. among the electorate as a whole.

Of course these numbers are coming out of my ass, but the trend I’m describing may have a real life equivalent.

I read this story last night, and maybe this is just the Daily News for you, but I thought this comment was moronic. “Light” versions of racial stereotypes? Like racists hate you less if your father is Kenyan instead of Californian. :rolleyes: Obama hasn’t had it as hard as some people and there are some underlying truths in the article, but the piece contains zero facts supporting the assertion “black voters haven’t warmed to Barack Obama.” What a shitty article. I think it could be true, but it’s unsupported.

I wonder if some of these “black leaders” aren’t stalking horses for the Clintons.

Obama represents a serious and unexpected threat to Hillary Clinton, particularly in Southern primaries, where black voters are a huge percentage of Democratic primary voters. Before Obama entered the picture, the Clintons were counting on these voters to help propel Hillary to victory. Now, Obama threatens to rob Hillary of that base of support.

Are these “black leaders” trying to undercut Obama in service of the Clintons? I can easily imagine Bill making a few discrete contacts and calling in some favors.

With NO political history worth speaking of, Obama is style without substance. He is a frontrunning black guy for office for one reason only… He hasn’t the baggage of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et al.

He hasn’t got a whole lot, but he was in the Illinois State Senate for 8 years and by 2008 he will have been a US Senator for four years. Obama isn’t a five-term Senator and two-term Governor, but neither is he entirely green.

I’m currently in the middle of reading Obama’s recent book, and I’ve read his first one. Based on what I’ve read and seen, he has a great deal of substance, just not a lot of national political experience. He is a frontrunner because of his message and how he delivers it, not just because he’s a Black politician outside the orbit of Jackson and Sharpton. His strength is that he seems to be able to genuinely get beyond the excessive and cynical partisanship of many of national politicians out there.

I heard on NPR not too long ago that about 62 percent of white people say that the United States is ready for a black president. About 52 percent of blacks say the country is ready for a black president. I’m not entirely too sure what to make of these numbers, even if I want to lend any weight to these numbers, but they are interesting numbers, nonetheless. I suppose here is as best a place to deposit these numbers as I have.

I don’t buy that at all. In fact, I have never met a Black person who does not like Barack Obama. Seeing as he was civil rights attorney and professor of constitutional law, I don’t think it’s fair to say he has no experience with those issues.

Additionally, Obama seems comfortable around Black people. Him being Black is an added benefit. It’s more about perceived comfort level than it is about skin color. That’s why Black people love Bill Clinton and hate George Bush. Black people would not vote for Condoleeza Rice in the same number they would Colin Powell. They are both republicans, but the perception is that Rice is not as friendly to the Black community. Accordingly, Obama, who married a Black woman, has Black kids, is a dem, and goes to a Black church should have no problem getting damn near every Black vote.

Nonsense. It has nothing to do with “viewing and expressing ideas through a lens of racial injustice”, it is about not making white people feel bad, or holding a mirror up to the racial injustices in society. People like to say they hate Sharpton and Jackson because of their individual flaws, but it is more about what they represent. People hated them before their scandals were news, and they wil hate them after. Just as they hated MLK and Malcolm X, and just like they hate people like Ralph Nader. It’s a matter of those people being seen as pests, reminding people that society has a long way to go, and they probably have a lot of perosnal flaws. So when you can’t ignore them (ie. Nader), they are demonized.

Which civil rights leaders are jealous? I didn’t even see any comments from anyone in that article, and everything I’ve heard the well known civil rights leaders say has been positive. Where are you getting this from?

The numbers reflect the confidence people have that the country would elect a Black president, not whether they would personally like to see it happen. Blacks, understandably, have less confidence such a thing would happen.

I doubt it. Remember, Bill Clinton helped himself when he spoke out against the “Kill White people for a day.” talk and critized Jesse Jackson. Many people thought that Bill Clinton would allow himself to be like Mondale and Dukakis and be played by Jesse Jackson.