Obviously, he disagrees.
No, it’s the pregnant woman’s just and exclusive choice, any way you slice it.
A choice which can send her to hell, and you too, if you help her procure it. Just saying.
I have no idea what you’re asking me.
Cite? Since when are religious assertions any kind of an argument. My God, who I just made up, says people go to hell if they try to stop abortions, so there. Prove I’m wrong.
Putting aside the issue of the Iraq war, popes can be wrong, and have been and are wrong all the time. I don’t think you quite understand the Catholic idea of papal infallibility. Not everything that comes out of a pope’s mouth is binding, infallible teaching. In fact, very little is.
And every Catholic also knows that the priestly act of granting absolution for sins is also called “forgiveness.” I was under the impression that you knew that, too.
You’re scoring enough rhetorical points as it is, Dio. Going for the piddly-ass ones like that threatens to give rise to a perception that you need them, and can let people give themselves permission to not take your points seriously.
If hell existed, which it doesn’t, that might actually mean something.
It does exist, and you should be very afraid.
I didn’t say anything about Papal Infallibility, and I do understand the circumstances under which it can be invoked (which is almost never). I was just asking whether Ají thinks the Pope is wrong in this instance, not whether the DOI is wrong.
For the record, I was raised mostly Catholic, went to Catholic schools, am married to a practicing Catholic. my kids are baptized Catholic and they go to a Catholic school. I don’t need to be lectured on Church doctrine. I’m quite familiar with it. It’s my own background. It just never took with me.
Can I get a clarification? Does Catholic doctrine teach that a politician who fails to advocate the criminalization of a particular sin is himself as tainted–or whatever–as the sinner? Can you point me to the catechism about that?
Well, you know what they say. Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
No, it doesn’t, which is why I shouldn’t be.
How many funeral services have you attended for miscarriages? I’m not referring to stillbirths but to pregnancies that terminated prematurely and naturally in the first trimester (i.e. the trimester in which more than 90% of abortions are performed)?
How does it affect your quality or quantity of life in the slightest if your neighbor who is completely law abiding has an abortion that she never tells you or anybody else (who wasn’t directly involved with the pregnancy or procedure) about?
How is a woman being legally forced to gestate a child that neither she nor anybody else wants and that she cannot afford to raise could possibly be a kindness to her or the child or a benefit to society? (And no, there are NOT loving parents waiting to adopt every child.)
One thing I have learned over the years is that women who have had abortions are like gays in one respect: most people have known a whole lot more of them than they would ever suspect, and I assure you they’re not always promiscuous unwed crack addicts.
What sickened me about the protesters being arrested was the gutless impotence “drama queen” quality of the gesture.
Hey, you people who got arrested: Getting arrested does not make you Thomas More, or Gandhi, or Aung San Suu Kyi, or anyone else but a drama queen. Getting arrested no more makes you Rosa Parks than the fact my mother did white people’s laundry makes me Malcolm X, so get the fuck over yourself.
You’re all going to a station where you’ll be printed and released on your own recognizance or token bail and where you will never be in any physical danger at all (which is good because you know damned good and well that if you were going to be in danger of a lengthy sentence or getting your ass whipped you know damned good and well you wouldn’t be doing anything that risked getting arrested). Eventually you’ll have a hearing and a small fine (incidentally you won’t get to have a LIFETIME speech and swelling clap scene at that hearing) and you’ll get to add a bullet point to your martyrdom résumé to impress those who already think just like you.
Meanwhile Obama will still have spoken, not one of the fetæ you claim to care so much about will have been saved, not one social problem that leads to women choosing to have abortions will have been even on the most local level softened, the already overworked police are inconvenienced, and the only person who benefits is you, which is fine really since this was really all about and only about you in the first place.
Can you send us a picture?
Was Dante accurate?
If I sincerely repent my sins on my deathbed, can I avoid Hell?
Do you believe in exorcism (sending demons back to Hell)?
Missed the edit window but wanted to add:
The reason the arrest of Rosa Parks and other people like her meant something was because it was more than a “look at me” gesture. Rosa Parks broke an unjust discriminatory law that disenfranchised unconstitutionally disenfranchised and dehumanized a quarter of the population of her state. Know what happened after she was fingerprinted? She lost her job. Every bill she owed to a white owned business was called due. She and her husband were harassed non-stop and received hundreds of death threats by mail, by phone, by people driving by, all in a time and place where it was known that while most of them were cranks, some weren’t. Rosa and her husband had to uproot their existence and flee the city where their friends and family lived to become strangers in a strange land on borrowed money and looking over their shoulder for years. (Between the arrest and the time she became an icon her life was hell.)
You people aren’t risking that. Not a single damned one of you is going to be looking over your shoulder, you’ll be waving at the camera if there is one and framing your mug shot if they give you a copy. And yet… on the news the people arrested act like they’re Rosa Parks or somebody equally maligned and put upon and oppressed… because of a man coming to speak in their city. Fuckers.
I loathed G.W. Bush. Not only would I have not pulled some self serving stunt had he come to speak at my school, I’d have attended the speech and acted respectfully. I would have told people for years about seeing the PotUS speak at my commencement. There’s not one stupid gesture I can pull that’s going to change his mind or his policy on a single damned thing, that’s what my vote and my campaign contributions and lobbyist contributions and editorials I’ve written are for (and I don’t overestimate the influence of any of those either, but it’s about micro becoming macro).
If Bush had come to speak at my institution and had specifically said “Jon haul it up here, I wanna run some things by you”, that would have been one thing. Otherwise, in this type of situation, you either adopt the military concept of “salute/respect the rank, not the person”, or if you really can’t handle it you sit it out (which I did once when Newt Gingrich gave a speech where I worked), but making an ass of yourself just makes you, well, an ass.
Or if you throw an evil galactic emperor down a nuclear reactor shaft.
[Ringo]Just mark them… RETURN TO CINDERS[/Ringo]
I agree with this particular assertion, but I will point out that “a fetus is not a person” is equally an opinion based on your personal unprovable axioms. I say this because the repetition of “but a fetus is not a person” in this thread is being offered as a given, as if this were an indisputable fact when it is merely an opinion. A circular one in many arguments.
Considering most people attend .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the funerals over their liftetimes, I fail to see your point. In fact, this so logically poor, I’m not sure if its a nonsequitur or a red herring, but it is a pointless waste of time nonetheless.
Lower birthrate in the USA = need for immigrants to come here, which lowers the standard of living for everyone.
And not all children are born to loving parents. So? Life isn’t fair. And being proabortion isn’t going to make it so. But that is beside the point. I’ll go take a poll of all the kids that went through a foster home/wards of the state and see how many would opt not to be born. Btw, every foster home I’ve ever seen is better than many of the places I’ve seen other people raising their kids. Oh, and Excuse me, but an abortion proponent who is “concerned about the children”. Heh. Color me incredulus.
If your posts are any indicator, you know little to nothing about real life, so I wouldn’t consider your experiences representative of anything. Well, unless you count your imagination.