Obama forcefully denounces Wright

Great Debates
61

[QUOTE=Hamlet]
That’s what just kinda stuns me. I could give a fuck what Obama’s nutty pastor says, and I’m amazed that it is even an issue. If this is the best that Obama’s enemies can come up with, I’m pretty confident.

Hillary has been partially vetted… and is very much hated. She has tons more baggage, and even some new stuff. But I don’t care if she has any more secrets out there, her issues are much more damning than any I’ve heard about Obama. But I’m still left scratching my head over why the hell controversial comments made by a pastor is worth two months of news coverage.
[/QUOTE]

Here’s the reason: many Americans don’t want to have to deal with 4-8 years of Farrakhan, Wright, etc. banging on the White House doors wanting quid pro quo from the POTUS who will be denouncing them every other Sunday and telling them to go away and that he didn’t win due to his race and doesn’t owe them anything, blah, blah, blah.

Secondly, because as you pointed out people already know who HRC is. She’s apparently not hated by a majority of voters in every single big state but Illinois. She’s got the lead in the popular vote, how hated can she be when it comes down to brass tacks? By the way, sometimes you vote for the person you hate if you think they’re nonetheless more competent and the devil you know type of thing.

And finally, and most importantly, because people don’t feel they know WHO OBAMA IS in the first place. He uses a lot of rhetoric and vague statements about being post-everything and has ties not just to “a pastor” but the man who brought him to Jesus Christ – who turns out to be, umm, questionable and who he has to end up denouncing. He also has ties to domestic terrorist Ayers. He is also endorsed by Hamas. And the New Black Panthers. Farrakhan speaks well of him.

Those are reasons why – it’s a cumulative thing of wait who is this guy? What does he really believe? If he doesn’t believe any of it, what did he know and when and why does he continue to align himself there and not denounce Wright? Oh, now he denounced Wright? Why now? Did Wright say something yesterday he hadn’t already said before? Are we to believe all of us heard of the AIDS comment , the Zionism is racism comment, etc. BEFORE Obama did even though it’s been out there for months? Really?

That’s why. May not be fair, may not be (w)right, but that’s why. Now you know.

62

I think it’s a shame that Obama ever had to say anything at all. It’s ridiculous that something like this is detracting from real issues. I would like to believe that Americans aren’t so stupid that they would actually fall for this kind of thing, but they did vote for W twice, so…

63

[QUOTE=Bosstone]
And yet it’s being discussed more than Clinton’s shortcomings. Nobody really talks about how Bosnia is going to sink Clinton.

ETA: And that’s the problem. Perception becomes reality. Enough people talk about how Wright is a problem for Obama, the more people think that maybe there’s something to it and Obama really should be docked for it.
[/QUOTE]

Because Bosnia is not some sort of oh my god who is she type of thing. It was a lie. A (non-postpartisan, non-Messiah, human, cruddy) politician lied. Next issue.

Wright is not run of the mill lying by a politician. It’s an association, not a lie and therefore raises more questions about WHO THIS PERSON IS.

Anybody who doesn’t know Hillary has/is/will lie is delusional. And many still vote for her anyway, knowing that, because they’re grown-ups.

64

Obama never said he heard those things for the first time yesterday.

65

[QUOTE=9thFloor]
A (non-postpartisan, non-Messiah, human, cruddy) politician lied. Next issue.
[/QUOTE]
I like this. You’re willing to give Clinton a pass because she’s human, but insist on putting Obama up on a pedestal nobody else is. And don’t try to claim that folks like Shayna are seeing him as a messiah merely because she’s enthusiastic. When she begins committing animal sacrifices in his name, then you may have something. No, the messiah and cult tags are simply pasted on by opponents wishing to label and deride genuine enthusiasm.

Obama may possibly be held to a higher standard of politicking, since that’s his angle, but he is and always will be human.

66

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I think it’s a shame that Obama ever had to say anything at all. It’s ridiculous that something like this is detracting from real issues. I would like to believe that Americans aren’t so stupid that they would actually fall for this kind of thing, but they did vote for W twice, so…
[/QUOTE]
Why is it a non-issue that Obama decided to associate himself closely with a man who’s been spouting this nonsense for several years? That he chose this person as his spiritual advisor, and attended his church for 20 years, raises serious questions as to where he really stands, socially (since Wright makes such a big deal about it) as well as spiritually.

67

[QUOTE=jshore]
Actually, 2001 I believe (i.e., right after 9/11). But, I also think that you have to look at that whole sermon…or at least a good chunk of it…to actually arrive at an informed opinion of what it was actually about. I am not saying that some of the rhetoric in it was not somewhat extreme, but the context and the larger point that he was making at a time when people were screaming out for vengeance without particular concern of whether or not that vengeance really be directed against the right people is, are important and are missing unless you go back and watch a significant part of the sermon and look at it in its historical context.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I get it. I always have, and for the most part I agree.

But that explanation is not is not going to play in the red and purple states. Heck, it may not play in many parts of the blue states.

His excellent speech on March 18 is a distant memory overshadowed by Rev Wright’s weekend tour, and Obama’s new (too little too late) response to his pastor of 20 years.

68

[QUOTE=Bosstone]
Some would say that’s what he did with this latest speech, acknowledging that Wright went too far after Obama tried to defend him before.
[/QUOTE]
See point #1. Wright went too far before Obama defended him; Obama has changed, not Wright.

Obama could have said something to the effect of “In the past I have defended Rev Wright against his critics, insisting that the Rev. must have been taken out of context. In hindsight, I was wrong to do so.” He chose not to say that, and instead seemed to imply that it was only what Wright did Monday that was outrageous.

69

That’s not how I see it (of course). I’m of the mindset that a mistake is forgivable as long as one learns from it. Wright let his mouth run, Obama made it clear that wasn’t cool, but didn’t condemn the man outright. When it became clear that Wright was going to let his mouth keep running, then it became time to get hard on him.

70

[QUOTE=Shayna]
I’m sorry, but that argument still doesn’t hold any water with me.

The only thing sad about this is that so many people out there are buying into all this nonsense.
[/QUOTE]

Nonsense? Is that why Obama held a news conference today to cut off ties to his pastor of 20 years.

Nonsense? Is that why there are ads running in North Carolina using Wright’s quotes.

I’m a strong Hillary supporter, but if Obama is the nominee, I’ll be voting for him in the GE. but there has to be a better explanation of Wright’s remarks and Obama’s relationship with him than “nonsense.”

71

[QUOTE=athelas]
Why is it a non-issue that Obama decided to associate himself closely with a man who’s been spouting this nonsense for several years? That he chose this person as his spiritual advisor, and attended his church for 20 years, raises serious questions as to where he really stands, socially (since Wright makes such a big deal about it) as well as spiritually.
[/QUOTE]

There is no evidence that Wright ever said anything particularly inflammatory in Obama’s presence (from what I’ve been reading, Wright has become increasingly more unfiltered and hyperbolic in the last couple of years) and most importantly, Wright is not Obama, so his opinions are irrelevant. No it doesn’t really raise any 'serious questions." That’s just demagoguery. I can’t believe that anyone with any sense really thinks that, underneath Barack Obama’s cool and measured exterior, he secretly simmers with hatred for America and the white race. I think it’s insulting that the right wing is working so hard sell American voters on such a preposterous insinuation.

72

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
(from what I’ve been reading, Wright has become increasingly more unfiltered and hyperbolic in the last couple of years)
[/QUOTE]
Rhetoric on all sides got kicked up several notches after 9/11. It’s possible that it was a catalyst for Wright’s Controversial Remarks, and if Obama wasn’t regularly attending Wright’s sermons at the time, then it’s certainly possible that he missed Wright’s ramping up.

73

[QUOTE=9thFloor]

Anybody who doesn’t know Hillary has/is/will lie is delusional. And many still vote for her anyway, knowing that, because they’re grown-ups.
[/QUOTE]
Is this the soft sexism of low expectations? :stuck_out_tongue:

74

Anyone who thinks this actually helps Obama is crazy.

It’s simple. This is the winning Obama story:

Brilliant black man rises from nothing on sheer ability. A man who is thoughtful, reasonable, and who can heal the divides in a very torn country. A person who trancends race, and speaks for all Americans in a way that they can be proud of. A new face of America for people who are tired of being thought of as the bad guys.

This is the losing Obama story:

Wily Chicago politician with questionable ties to extremists and crooks. Someone who will stir up racial divides rather than heal them. A person who, while very intelligent, is also somewhat arrogant and condescending to others not like him. A person who seeks not to bring everyone together, but rather to stir up old grievances and seek to replace the current winners with a new class.

Anything that pushes Obama even marginally closer to story #2 is incredibly damaging for him, because people already realize that he’s a big change, and therefore a big risk.

I predict this will cost him at least 5 points in the polls. And I also think there are a whole lot of superdelegates right now going, “hang on to your votes, boys and girls. This one’s not over yet.”

I mean, Reverend Wright was escorted into the room by bodyguards from the Nation of Islam - Louis Farrakan’s outfit. This is Obama’s declared spiritual mentor and close friend. It’s going to make a lot of people stop and take a harder look at Obama. Guaranteed. Plus, that idiot Sharpton is raising trouble in New York. Also not good for Obama.

Also remember that Obama is bound to take a hit from the black community because of his denunciation of Wright, and probably also from the far left. Basically Obama found himself in a situation where there was no winning play. All he could do is try to stop the bleeding without doing too much other damage.

75

[QUOTE=Sam Stone]

I mean, Reverend Wright was escorted into the room by bodyguards from the Nation of Islam - Louis Farrakan’s outfit.
[/QUOTE]

There is some controversy about the veracity of this.

Link

76

I think this proves that the usual suspects are all completely unmoved in their opinion of Obama. Elv1s made his usual, predictable Obama-supporters-are-sheep comment within the first 10 replies, and the non-Democrats have opinions ranging from “Don’t care” to “so what?” This thread is useless.

If this affects Obama’s polling, i’ll eat my hat. Seriously, who isn’t already decided by this point?

77

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
There is no evidence that Wright ever said anything particularly inflammatory in Obama’s presence (from what I’ve been reading, Wright has become increasingly more unfiltered and hyperbolic in the last couple of years) and most importantly, Wright is not Obama, so his opinions are irrelevant. No it doesn’t really raise any 'serious questions." That’s just demagoguery. I can’t believe that anyone with any sense really thinks that, underneath Barack Obama’s cool and measured exterior, he secretly simmers with hatred for America and the white race. I think it’s insulting that the right wing is working so hard sell American voters on such a preposterous insinuation.
[/QUOTE]

As if that’s the only possibility for why he’s not a good idea: because he’s secretly a racist. :rolleyes:

I, for one, don’t think he’s nefarious (I could be wrong) I just think he’s naive.

Which, in the end, is just as – if not more – dangerous.

Company you keep and all that. So enough with the secret racist strawman.

By the way, Gallup poll just came out: Clinton beats McCain. McCain beats Obama.

“The Gallup poll shows Clinton with a 2-point margin over presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain, 47-45 while Obama trails McCain 46-44 in the latest tracking poll of the general election.” 2026 Election Results, Latest News & Updates | Fox News Elections Center

Spin away, but that’s not good news for Obama.

78

[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
Anyone who thinks this actually helps Obama is crazy.

It’s simple. This is the winning Obama story:

Brilliant black man rises from nothing on sheer ability. A man who is thoughtful, reasonable, and who can heal the divides in a very torn country. A person who trancends race, and speaks for all Americans in a way that they can be proud of. A new face of America for people who are tired of being thought of as the bad guys.

This is the losing Obama story:

Wily Chicago politician with questionable ties to extremists and crooks. Someone who will stir up racial divides rather than heal them. A person who, while very intelligent, is also somewhat arrogant and condescending to others not like him. A person who seeks not to bring everyone together, but rather to stir up old grievances and seek to replace the current winners with a new class.

Anything that pushes Obama even marginally closer to story #2 is incredibly damaging for him, because people already realize that he’s a big change, and therefore a big risk.

I predict this will cost him at least 5 points in the polls. And I also think there are a whole lot of superdelegates right now going, “hang on to your votes, boys and girls. This one’s not over yet.”

I mean, Reverend Wright was escorted into the room by bodyguards from the Nation of Islam - Louis Farrakan’s outfit. This is Obama’s declared spiritual mentor and close friend. It’s going to make a lot of people stop and take a harder look at Obama. Guaranteed. Plus, that idiot Sharpton is raising trouble in New York. Also not good for Obama.

Also remember that Obama is bound to take a hit from the black community because of his denunciation of Wright, and probably also from the far left. Basically Obama found himself in a situation where there was no winning play. All he could do is try to stop the bleeding without doing too much other damage.
[/QUOTE]

Hit the nail on the head. And I do think the days of 92% of the black vote in a given state are over for him as well for the very reason you stated.

And yes, for Obama to say he’s never been my spiritual mentor or adviser is just laughable when he’s literally introduced him as his ‘close friend’ and he KICKED OFF HIS CAMPAIGN alongside Wright and his family in prayer (“in the basement” as Wright put it at the Press Club) right before “going upstairs” to do the political announcement. Wright shared that detail with the world this week.

Sorry, that’s not just “some pastor” and Ayers is not just “some guy in the neighborhood” and Rezko is not just “some client he did 5 hours of work for”; this is all typical deflection and minimalizing.

The fact is Wright was on the board of the organization he CREATED to pool together the combined religious figures in black America on behalf is his campaign, he is the man who brought him to Jesus Christ, he is the man from whose sermon his book title – which turned out to be a fundamental media-launching-pad publication for his eventual candidacy – is taken; Ayers helped LAUNCH Obama’s political career with a fundraiser (not just some guy that lives in the 'hood) and Rezko was a major fundraiser for him as well (not just some guy he happened to do legal work for through a church).

This constant dismissing makes things look worse than they are.

My guess is that most if not all of these associations are in fact innocuous but he’s awfully naive if he ever thought he could brush them all off.

He tried to pimp the black community with his “tan” while apparently sharing almost no cultural values or with Black Liberation Theology – even though that was the literal points on the website of Wright’s church (since taken down), pimp the liberal white community by offering guilt expungement, and pimp the female vote with his aww shucks gosh I’m such a star incidentally to boot. He benefited from ABC (Anybody but Clinton) Clinton fatigue as the “other white meat” choice. LOL The stars lined up for the twink and the media swooned.

The man has unlimited faith in his ability to charm the planet.

Hubris.

Couldn’t happen to a more condescending guy.

Oh yeah: and he doesn’t wanna do any debates or talk about it either. LOL And for the record they haven’t had 21 debates between just the 2 of them. It’s 4.

79

[QUOTE=Mosier]
I think this proves that the usual suspects are all completely unmoved in their opinion of Obama. Elv1s made his usual, predictable Obama-supporters-are-sheep comment within the first 10 replies, and the non-Democrats have opinions ranging from “Don’t care” to “so what?” This thread is useless.

If this affects Obama’s polling, i’ll eat my hat. Seriously, who isn’t already decided by this point?
[/QUOTE]

Put some salt on that before chewing, it’ll taste better.

"The latest daily Gallup tracking poll shows Hillary Clinton up 1 point over Barack Obama in a national head-to-head match-up, 47-46 percent…

From a broad perspective, this situation marks a loss for Obama, who has generally been in the lead over Clinton for the last month."

And, as posted before, she now does better among independents when compared to McCain than Obama does. Sorry, that’s not very good and even I was surprised by that. In fact, the AP poll shows her doing better than Obama as compared to McCain in every single category but one, across ages.

The numbers are shifting.

80

[QUOTE=Richard Parker]
There is some controversy about the veracity of this.

Link
[/QUOTE]

According to Trinity. Thanks, I won’t take their word for it but you’re right controversy.