I’m starting this thread to jump the gun on everyone by presenting my take on it in advance and test my understanding of where Obama is coming from.
I believe that “black liberation theology” which Barack has been exposed to for many years is a primary reason why he’s running. Running against. He can’t put down the advocates for they are the very ones he wishes to convert first. Already it appears that there is an increasing view amongst blacks that he really isn’t “black” and amongst whites that he has a hidden agenda for the likes of Wright’s views.
Obama has chosen the site of The historic Liberty Bell for this impromtu speech. This is a speech with elements which would have been more likely incorporated in an inaugural address. Its too bad that he’s been pushed to prematurely address the issue. This will not be a campaign speech. This will not be for votes.This will be a definitive presentation to retain his credibility amongst blacks and whites in order to be effective in his quest to heal America.
I expect we will see history in the making.
Just the other day, you were arguing that black people were voting for him because he was black. In any case this is simply not true. People were arguing months ago that he wasn’t black enough for black voters, but I think his very voter support proves that isn’t true. If this weekend has changed your view on that subject, I’d like to know why.
While I think this issue is a bunch of nothing, if these topics are important I don’t think it’s bad that he is addressing them. The presumption that this is not about campaigning of votes is naive - if he wasn’t concerned about this controversy affecting his campaign he probably would not be addressing it.
I don’t think any of us can argue that Obama was attracted to the Trinity church and Rev. Wright in large part because of the black liberation theology and social activism displayed there. That had to be attractive to someone who had been somewhat disconnected from his black identity as a youth. Besides, he wanted to gain credibility as a community organizer and later as a politician, and this church helped pin down his place in the community.
The problem is that this particular strain of preaching in the black community has strange anti-American and anti-Semitic undertones that creep out from time to time. We saw this years ago in the “Hymietown” remarks of Jesse Jackson, it has been pretty clear in most of Al Sharpton’s career and it is clear from these soundbites that Wright has engaged in this rhetoric as well.
Now, does this get taken seriously by congregants when preachers say these things? I think that depends. Certainly Obama doesn’t seem to have taken it seriously much. But if he didn’t speak out against it, or leave the church, it gives Wright more room to fill other’s minds with this claptrap.
And the notion that he didn’t know about these issues is laughable - he knew Wright was sufficiently hot to keep him away from his announcement for the presidency.
I believe this speech will echo historical significance throughout this campaign. From what I am seeing in the news, on his website and from campaign insiders this speech will not only resonate with his supporters but will show his opponants he is the man to beat.
Though some may contend this speech is not to garner more votes, I think the respective significance of full press coverage will only help to make Obama look more presidencial, and will have the effect of people turning out to vote for the man.
Obama’s epistemic logic throughout this campaign in terms of transcending gender, race, creed, and class has truly separated him from the pack, and this speech will be constructed to further reinforce that logic amongst his strongest supporters and undecideds. If Obama is as smart as he comes across he will use this press coverage as a fulcrum to swing undecided supers and voters to simply look in his direction. Looking in his direction will offer those who are undecided the opportunity to see him through a full spectrum lense. To see all the views, all the slants all the positions - If he is to be our next POTUS, he will not show people a weak persona, he’ll do the opposite.
Bet your bottom dollar all the superdelegates all the folks in PA, all the folks who have yet to vote all the supporters and detractors will be tuning in. If I were Obama I would use this opportunity to the maximum of bebefit of my campaign and truly show the American Public who I am and what I’m made of.
He claims to want to get beyond black and white, beyond the divisivness of race based politics. However he’s attended a church where their leader has apparently been engaging in exactly that.
Words matter. Yet he says that the outspoken divisive preacher’s words are just words… Kind of like an eccentric uncle spouting nonsense.
And he needs to acknowlege and explain the fact that he knew this man was saying these things, and explain why he stayed at the church.
This is a big issue for him. It’s a make or break speech, I think.
I don’t think it’s “too bad” he’s been “pushed”. Obama put himself in this position. He needs to explain it to us. I’ve been bitching about how ridiculous the compressed campaign season is, and this is the reason why it’s important to make the primaries a marathon, not a sprint.
Obama will or will not be able to explain his troublesome relationship with this man, and then the voters can go from there. If he is able to do so, he’ll move on to the nomination, I believe. If not, then Hillary will. Either way, it needs to be addressed to choose the most worthy candidate… This isn’t something to be disappointed about, it’s something that will test a candidate’s qualifications for the office he seeks.
Obama, in his address, noted that the most segregated hour in America occurs every Sunday monring. I think that for the first time, white America got a first-hand view of some very extreme views being expressed during that hour-- and people are all like “WHAAA?”
People knew Obama was black, people probably knew he attended a black church. What most people didn’t realize is that there is still a lot of anger and helplessness felt in the black community. And so, during that most segregated hour, it doesn’t seem out of line for black religious communities to address that anger in ways they might not address them in “mixed” company. And I think that’s what shocking to most of the people who are screaming “WHAAA?” right now.
Images inside Obama’s church are shocking to people that aren’t used to it. This is the racial wedge that I think many people were hoping to find, and use to illustrate that Obama is a black man, and black people are still so different than us. However, I think Obama addressed that he isn’t just a black man, and he doesn’t just have Afro-centric views; he and his family are global.
In particular, can you cite that either “anti-Americanism” or antsemitism or any more prevalent in the UCC (which is majority white, incidentally) than among Southern Baptists. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham and others have all said anti-American and/or antisemitic things. White evangelicals constantly bash America and Americans. It’s their bread and butter.
By the way, what did Wright say that was antisemitic?
Neither Jackson nor Sharpton are UCC. Also, cite for Sharpton saying anything antisemitic or “anti-American?”
Why should he leave the UCC just because one preacher (one with some admirable qualities. That America-hater is an ex-Marine, for instance) has some nutty views about how AIDS got started? The more I actually see of those carefully selected excerpts from his sermons, I see very little that’s actually that offensive or untrue. Fox News has been playing this stuff on an infinite loop and trying to scare whitey with the sight of an angry black preacher (and, depressingly, it seems to still be effective in some quarters), but really, when you parse the words, there’s little that’s really that objectionable and there’s nothing racist in any of it. At bottom, this whole flap is about showing white people an angry negro, ginning up a lot of demagoguery about how frightening this negro is, morphing him into a proxy for Obama himself and and making the artless implication that Obama is a modern day Nat Turner who will kill white people in their beds and rape their women.
What “issues” do you really think are that significant that Obama should have left the UCC over? That Wright said Jesus was black?* That he once said 'God damn America" at a sermon that Obama didn’t attend? White preacers are constantly saying that America is immoral and depraved and no one bats an eye. Your own President that you voted for twice has said that Jews can’t go to Heaven and he called Billy Graham to back him up on that during an argument with his mom. On his first trip to Israel, GWB told reporters that he was going to tell the Israelis they were all going to Hell. He later said that was just a joke. Imagine if Obama had madde such a joke. The only thing that I think Wright was really off base on was the AIDS thing, but that’s not worth leaving one’s whole church and established community of worshippers over.
You’re a catholic, aren’t you, Moto? The Pope has said some sharply critical things about the US and the War in Iraq. Within the last couple of days, he even used the word “slaughter” in regards to the American occupation of Iraq. Are you going to leave the RCC? Isn’t the Pope Christ’s emissary on earth?
*last night I saw Karl Rove telling Sean Hannity how offensive that was. I’m curious as to WHY that’s offensive. Inaccurate maybe, but not offensive. Certainly no more offensive than saying Jesus was white. But Hannity and Rove were as pissed as can be that anyone would suggest that Jesus was black. It was as overt a piece of race-baiting demagoguery as I’ve ever seen. Rove might as well have come out and said “he called Jesus a nigger. Can you believe it?”
I think Wright might have been speaking metaphorically about Jesus being black, but even if he wasn’t, everything he said holds water if you just change “black” to “non-white.” Jesus was a poor non-white who was executed by an occupying of rich white Europeans. That is fact. Nothing offensive about it.
Wow. It may be the most effective, straight-shooting and important speech I’ve ever heard. He didn’t shy away from anything. I think it was inspiring! And may send him right to the White House.
In retrospect, it seems almost inevitable that Obama was going to have to give this speech. We can’t have a black candidate without having this discussion. In retrospect, we’ve been skirting the issue. Now, with this speech, it’s “out in the open.” We now can really and truly have this discussion, have everyone at the table, and have it MEAN something.
I think this was one of the greatest and most important speeches I’ve ever watched live. He did a superb job of distancing himself from and even condemning Wright’s comments without condemning Wright himself. He brings up that “all God’s dangers ain’t white men”*- i.e. that not all social problems in the black community can be blamed on the white power structure and history- while also reminding the equally valid yet less expressed point that many of the social problems in the black community CAN be blamed on the white power structure and history. I LOVED his comments on his grandmother, a very old white woman he loves very much and who loves him very much and who has made racist comments that make him cringe- for those who have such relatives it’s hard to understand how you can not only love somebody who makes uninformed or highly prejudiced comments (whether about blacks, gays, Hispanics, whatever) but can honestly say “they’re a good person” all in all.
He returned to the subject of his candidacy and issues transcendent of race and the subject of unity that he not only runs upon but symbolizes by his very being. I think that this was a bullseye. I think that anti-Obama zealots will still be anti-Obama, but I think he’s returned most of those who may have strayed in the post-Wright controversy to the fold.
*From a classic southern book for those who don’t know the reference
**I didn’t want to add to the hundreds of other comments in The Wright Stuff threads, but I can honestly say it never bothered me for a moment. I think that Obama is a demonstrated intellectual capable of making up his mind on issues using evidence rather than demagogues and that his participation in that church is not because he’s a Kool Aid drinker but because of the community, political advantage, and an attempt to connect with both the “blackness” and the religion that was missing from his childhood. He has stated before that one of his greatest aversions to religion before joining a church was that he did not want to surrender his critical thinking, and I don’t think he has either where doctrine or the views of the pastor are concerned.
ETA: Of course we won’t know for sure until the speech has been analyzed by Randy, Paula, and Simon. I’m pretty sure Paula’s review will use the words rainbow, soul, and aura.
Awesome speech. Conciliatory. Honest on both sides. The question I have is simple… are people willing to be strong enough to look at this?
I’m watching Buchanan try to step away from it and make it something else.
I cried. This is why I want him as President. Do I worry he might be naive at times? Sure. But I think he’s smarter than people give him credit for… and that was on display today.
I believe I just saw your next POTUS give one of the most inspiring speeches ever.
What a loss for your country were you to miss the opportunity of picking such a fantastic and inspirational leader, what with the grand ideas and hopes for a better nation this man stands for.
One hell of a speech. There’s so much talking in politics that it’s easy to overlook when something important and valuable is said. This is an important and valuable moment.
