Obama forcefully denounces Wright

Great Debates
101

[QUOTE=Liberal]
It’s not like Obama never left his pew in twenty years. He didnt sleep there.
[/quote]
I find it difficult to believe that Obama had no idea that Wright had been spewing this kind of hate until shortly after Obama declared his candidacy.

Not “life” experience - national political experience. Experience, that is, outside the Daly machine and the mutually reinforcing world of black politics, where “the Man is keeping you down/it is the CIA’s fault your son is on crack/the feds invented AIDS” are applause lines.

That’s the point - why is this a surprise to Obama? Because Wright never said anything like this before? As mentioned, I don’t believe this. Because this kind of hate speech from Wright offends mainstream Americans? That is more evidence of Obama’s insularity.

But saying, in essence, “this rhetoric is fine until it hurts my campaign” is hardly a badge of honor. If it was hateful and divisive before, you should not wait until it becomes an issue for your image before you repudiate it.

Obama should have done that twenty years ago.
Apparently everything was fine as long as Wright was sticking it to Whitey. Then it’s cool, and Obama dedicates books to him. But once it hurts the sacred march to the White House…

Regards,
Shodan

102

[QUOTE=Shodan]
Apparently everything was fine as long as Wright was sticking it to Whitey. Then it’s cool, and Obama dedicates books to him. But once it hurts the sacred march to the White House…

Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]
What is the huge problem you see with this whole thing and its relevance to a presidential candidate? Do you think Obama is a closet racist? Do you think he’ll want to run out all “whitey” from the government? What is the issue that makes this headlines for two months?

Wow. Obama had a relationship with a black man who doesn’t like the system, the US government’s history of white supremacy, and perceived inequalities currently. What a frickin’ shocker, right there. Stunning. Believe it or not, there are great chunks of the “black community” that feel that way. And many of them, like Wright, haven’t let the wounds of slavery, governmentally enforced segregation, and treatment as second class citizens go. But the only way to deal with it is to talk about it, get it out in the open, and have an honest to God discussion of race relations in America. That’s one thing Obama is trying to do. But, as I’m finding out, that’s nigh but impossible with a bunch of idiots crying “racism” and “hate!”. Whether it is Sharpton or others on the left, and Rush, Hannity, and so many more on the right, pimping racial outrage. It’s absolutely pathetic to see how little change there is in the politics of race. Not just the ignorant, divisive statements of Rev. Wright, but also the reaction of the right.

103

[QUOTE=Shodan]
That’s the point - why is this a surprise to Obama? Because Wright never said anything like this before? As mentioned, I don’t believe this. Because this kind of hate speech from Wright offends mainstream Americans? That is more evidence of Obama’s insularity.

But saying, in essence, “this rhetoric is fine until it hurts my campaign” is hardly a badge of honor. If it was hateful and divisive before, you should not wait until it becomes an issue for your image before you repudiate it.

Obama should have done that twenty years ago.
Apparently everything was fine as long as Wright was sticking it to Whitey. Then it’s cool, and Obama dedicates books to him. But once it hurts the sacred march to the White House…

[/QUOTE]

It must be nice to live in a black and white world where your friends and acquaintances are all on the same page as you are. Most of us deal with friends and family who we love despite differences of opinion or even contradictions in their character.

Was Obama unaware of Wright’s rhetoric till just a few months ago? Of course not. Obama even said he did not agree with everything the Reverend was saying in his sermons. That does not preclude generally liking the man who helped Obama sort out his own spirituality and who may very well have done many good and noble deeds in support of his community. Personally I have yet to find a church where I agreed with the minister 100% and doubt I ever will and think that is perfectly natural.

Further, such rhetoric is not uncommon in African-American dominated churches with African-American ministers. It’s just that whitey gets to stay in their church and not be exposed to it. Due to a political campaign it was dragged into the media spotlight and then the white community plays all aghast at something that really should have come as no surprise to most who pay a modicum of attention to American society (making no comment on whether those messages are right or wrong, just that they are made).

Now, whether rightly or wrongly, the Clintons and the media and the public are hooking Wright’s proverbial caboose to the Obama train and making claims that if you sat in that guy’s church then you must accept his messages. This despite absolutely no rhetoric or deeds from Obama that would indicate that is the case.

Obama made a rather spectacular speech explicitly trying to point this out. That he respected the man but did not agree with everything that man said. Nonetheless the argument was repeatedly made that Obama is tarnished by someone else’s views despite Obama repudiating those views.

So that very same man continues in his rhetoric and maybe even ramps it up a notch. The continuing implication is that this man represents Obama’s views or, more sinisterly, Obama’s secret heart. Nevermind that Obama has no track record or speeches to support that notion.

So, Obama repeatedly tries to say he does not agree with all that Rev. Wright says and Rev. Wright continues to spout his stuff with a new, larger audience he gets from riding on Obama’s coattails. Why then is it so wrong for Obama to finally get fed up and make it abundantly clear he absolutely does not buy into that rhetoric and is offended someone he once respected and looked to would abuse their relationship for his own benefit?

104

[QUOTE=Hamlet]

Wow. Obama had a relationship with a black man who doesn’t like the system, the US government’s history of white supremacy, and perceived inequalities currently. What a frickin’ shocker, right there. Stunning. Believe it or not, there are great chunks of the “black community” that feel that way. And many of them, like Wright, haven’t let the wounds of slavery, governmentally enforced segregation, and treatment as second class citizens go. But the only way to deal with it is to talk about it, get it out in the open, and have an honest to God discussion of race relations in America. That’s one thing Obama is trying to do. But, as I’m finding out, that’s nigh but impossible with a bunch of idiots crying “racism” and “hate!”. Whether it is Sharpton or others on the left, and Rush, Hannity, and so many more on the right, pimping racial outrage. It’s absolutely pathetic to see how little change there is in the politics of race. Not just the ignorant, divisive statements of Rev. Wright, but also the reaction of the right.
[/QUOTE]

If Obama can successfully transcend this [which he is in a good position to do] it will mark not only a historical precedence but a cultural paradigm shift.
I don’t think the country as a whole is ready for that - but I do think we are actually going to see what will happen when Obama does step into office in the white house. I’m personally excited to see what is going to happen - because I don’t see a cultural disintegration taking place, but more of a shift to getting things done with a higher degreeof judgement than has happened in the past. This entire Wright debacle is laughable in the grand scheme of things. Hell if a president can out and out LIE to the nation on national television about having sex with an intern and then get caught, we can surly elect a black man into the oval office.

105

[QUOTE=Hamlet]
What is the huge problem you see with this whole thing and its relevance to a presidential candidate? Do you think Obama is a closet racist? Do you think he’ll want to run out all “whitey” from the government? What is the issue that makes this headlines for two months?
[/QUOTE]
The fact that Obama does not seem to have realized that hate speech is a Bad Thing, until he decided to run for President. A good big chunk of Obama’s campaign seems to be a honest conversation about race. OK, but that means honesty is going to be required from all sides. And just sitting back and taking it while some black bigot spouts anti-white rhetoric does not fit my definition of a conversation.

Then Obama was lying when he said he didn’t know about it. Or, what is more probable is that he was aware of the rhetoric, but had no idea that it was anything but common wisdom. So for years, Obama sat there and nodded his head when his mentor told everyone that the US government invented AIDS and Italians were garlic-noses who killed Christ and praised Louis Farrakhan. And, far from taking offense, he thought so highly of the speaker that he dedicated a book to him.It was only after Obama declared his candidacy that he repudiated the rhetoric, hoping that would be the end of it. Unfortunately, Wright did not go gently into that good night, but decided to rage, rage against the lying of the white.

Well, now whitey is exposed to it. And whitey seems to be having rather a different reaction to it than Obama did.

Regards,
Shodan

106

[QUOTE=Shodan]
The fact that Obama does not seem to have realized that hate speech is a Bad Thing, until he decided to run for President.
[/quote]
Bullshit. I know, I know, as far as you’re concerned, what Wright said was “hate speech”. But, here’s the thing, it’s not. And, even if you stretch, squint, and ignore all the context of what Wright actually said and decide to call it hate speech, Obama has denounced it all.

And, again, you’re wrong about Wright’s speechs being anti-white. They are certainly anti-segregation. Anti-government. Anti-slavery. Anti racists who did those things. But it’s not anti-white. That’s just the right wing talking point that you seem to have fully swallolled. There are white bigots and black bigots, and Asian bigots and fushia bigots. But the very things you and yours have been decrying for ages (pimping racial outrage when done by Sharpton or Jackson) is the exact same thing you’re doing now. With your using “whitey” and misrepresenting Wright’s statements, you’re nothing more than a pimp for racial outrage. If that’s what you need to get through the night, fine. Rip Rev. Wright apart. Destroy his life. Take his speeches out of context to convince yourself you’re doing what is right.

It has fuckall to do with Obama.

I guess I’ll ask again. So the fuck what? Even if you, unfairly by the by, think the worst of Wright, what’s it got to do with Obama. Do you think, despite every shred of evidence, that Obama agrees with Wright? Do you think this is anything more than one man accepting a person, complete with their flaws, and seeing the good in him?

I know, gasp, Obama had a close friend who has some idoitic ideas. How tragic. What the fuck does that have to do with being President. Worst case scenario, it shows Obama is too tolerant of the inane ravings of his friends. What a tragedy. Maybe Mccain should have divorced his wife when she was a drug addict and thief.

107

Cite for Obama ever having heard or sanctioned “hate speech” from Wright? Cite for Wright ever engaging in hate speech at all?

108

As mentioned, Obama considered Wright to be his mentor and friend, and found his ideas congenial to the point of belonging to his church for twenty years, and dedicating…

:shrugs:

I’ve typed all this before. Sorry, brick wall.

Regards,
Shodan

109

Cite for Obama calling Wright a “mentor?”

110

Does this put to rest the “Obama is a radical Muslim” rumors?

111

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
Why do you think his Philadelphia speech from a few weeks earlier, the one that got him all that praise, “one of the greatest political speeches in history” etc., could not continue to apply? Was it, perhaps, a 10-point loss since?
[/QUOTE]
It’s like you’ve never heard of the three-strikes rule.

Obama supported Wright as the person Obama knew for 20 years, but denounced the statements made recently. When it became clear that Wright was going to keep making those statements, he stopped being the person Obama knew. So Obama’s position had to change. How is that so hard to swallow?

112

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
yojimbo, if you can propose a more appropriate term than “True Believers” for people whose decisions are made on the basis of emotion over fact, as this thread is only the latest to illustrate, then what is it?

[/QUOTE]

One can only assume that by “True Believers”, you mean people such as 9thFloor, Shodan, and yourself… as *you *appear to be the ones who’ve decided, long ago, that you weren’t going to vote for Obama and are willing to nitpick every detail of his life in a crusade to convince others to vote against him. No detail is too small to suffice as a reason to vote against him. From this side of the election booth, *you *appear to be the political fanatics.

113

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Cite for Obama ever having heard or sanctioned “hate speech” from Wright?
[/QUOTE]
I cite common sense that Obama knew this was going on in the church he attended for 20 years and from a man he quoted in his books.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Cite for Wright ever engaging in hate speech at all?
[/QUOTE]
I cite Obama doing backward hand flips denouncing Wright. You tell me what Obama is objecting to. It might be when
Wright refers to the US Government as white supremacists, referred to America as the KKKof A or talked about garlic nosed Italians. Wright clearly has a bigoted view of the world.

114

As shown in the link I provided, thousands of church members were taken by surprise when these revelations “arose”. Some people apparently believe this place had 80 members who called one another to gossip about the preacher every night.

I just don’t understand why all the Hillary whores — people who run her campaign and do her thug work — don’t understand these things better than anyone. If people are to be reduced to ruins based on their past associations, then the Clintons are the Parthenon of politics.

115

I wonder if this “Rev.” Wright has any idea about how much harm his words have caused? Sure, its a great big joke-that the US Government created the AIDs virus?
Maybe, the muslim fanatic needs such encouragement to strap a bomb on and kill several innocent people?
Or the stupid claim tat balck men are in jail because of the “three strikes laws”?
I find it kind of amusing, that this Wright lies through his teeth, saying things he knows are NOT true.
Then he turns around and offers excuses for his mendacious ways
If I were a member of his church, i would NOT want MY children listenting to his hate-filled harangues-like the “Ridin’dirty” one (about Bill Clinton).
Sorry, Wright can say anything he wants-only, don’t tell me he didn’t know he was lying.

116

[QUOTE=Magiver]
I cite common sense that Obama knew this was going on in the church he attended for 20 years and from a man he quoted in his books.
[/quote]

What are you alleging was “going on” for 20 years, and cite that it was, indeed, “going on?”

[quote]
I cite Obama doing backward hand flips denouncing Wright. You tell me what Obama is objecting to.
[/quote
He didn’t like the AIDS allegation and he didn’t like any suggestion that he (Obama) was only being cynically political is his disavowal of some of Wright’s statements, but he never accused Wright of hate speech.

Denunciations of racism are not hate speech.

Wright said that Romans who crucified Jesus “looked down their garlic noses” at him. He didn’t say anything about modern Italians. I guess you can get indignant on behalf of Ancient Romans if you want, but it’s kind of silly to extropolate that into hate speech.

117

[QUOTE=Magiver]
I cite common sense that Obama knew this was going on in the church he attended for 20 years and from a man he quoted in his books.
[/QUOTE]
In other words, “I don’t need evidence, I just want to believe it.”

118

[QUOTE=Shodan]
As mentioned, Obama considered Wright to be his mentor and friend, and found his ideas congenial to the point of belonging to his church for twenty years, and dedicating…
[/quote]
And found his ideas “about Christianity” congenial. You and yours seem to think that going to church means the same thing as agreeing with everything your pastor says.

You could have typed it 1000 times. It would still be the same old pile of baloney as it was the first time. Go back to your race baiting.

119

OK, let’s get something straight here, there is no evidence that Rev. Wright was as aniimated and divisive for 20 years. He may have, probably has, morphed over time like we all have over the last 20 years. I can easily see as he gets older, as the Bush Administration screws the country for 8 years, as he probably sees how being theatrical and somewhat controversial increases his Q factor, all create the man we see today. Also, let’s be honest here, how often do you think Obama goes to this Church lately, meaning the last five years, given his political career. And another thing, chances are that 90% of the sermons by Rev. Wright are fairly generic, albeit fiery, sermons about sin and forgiveness and themes that are heard in every church around the country regardless of skin color.

Twenty years ago is a long time, and whether or not he used the word mentor, I can see how Obama, at 22 years old recieved considerable counsel from Rev. Wright early on. But time moves on, Obama becomes his own man, Rev. Wright’s views and Obama’s diverge as time goes on. Obama while still a faithful memebr of the church, is drawn away from the church and more importantly Rev. Wright over time, but in your heart you are still deeply connected andl we get to this point.

In my mind, being the Obama true believer that I am, it makes perfect sense to me that Obama would have this revelation about his pastor.

120

[QUOTE=Bosstone]

Obama supported Wright as the person Obama knew for 20 years, but denounced the statements made recently. When it became clear that Wright was going to keep making those statements, he stopped being the person Obama knew. So Obama’s position had to change. How is that so hard to swallow?
[/QUOTE]
Indeed. In fact, his ability to do just that has earned him the respect and endorsement of yet another superdelegate. . .

Then, of course, you have those who go to great lengths to twist and writhe and spin the simple fact that as a human being he’s not immune from having a friend (or even loved-one) espouse views with which he doesn’t agree, into some insurmountable character flaw in him. These are the some of the same people who would rather support a known, habitual liar to run this country, as if we haven’t seen the damage that can be caused by having one of those in the White House for the past 7½ years.

Stunning, really.