I strongly disagree with this premise. Reverend Wright is supposed to lead people spiritually. IMO his rhetoric adds unnecessary mental baggage to the outlook of his constituents. A child growing up under his tutelage would believe the US was run by white supremacists.
So you’ve been attending his church for the last 20 years and can attest to the nature of his sermons? Or are you just letting this one, performed after 9/11 when everyone’s rhetoric was running hot, stand for all of them?
Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell blamed 9/11 on everyone but straight white Christians. If a member of their churches said that in the past that their sermons had been fiery but never risen to that level of hate before, I wouldn’t let Robertson and Falwell off the hook for the comments they did make, but I would try to give them the benefit of the doubt that it hadn’t been a strong part of their sermons until then. I’d probably think that what they said about 9/11 reflected their true beliefs, but there’s no reason to think those beliefs would have been passed on to their congregations if folks said they hadn’t been.
Can you point to anything like this being the case? Are Rev. Wright’s congregation notably racist or bigoted or espousing “kill whitey” slogans or anything of that sort? Are there people who grew up in that church who are like that?
Seriously. If Wright’s messages were so consistent and so pernicious there should be some evidence of it in his congregation. Surely someone from there in 30 years grew up to be a writer or columnist or business man or preacher or something to carry the torch Wright gave them. It is absolutely clear as well that Wright utterly failed to convince Obama of any of it.
And apart from all that is the notion that you assess the whole person. We can argue how much weight might be given to this or that aspect certainly. But if you are a person who will judge someone solely on one aspect of their character then that is a flaw in your character and not theirs.
Well, wright already retired so he sorta was out of business but in general I agree with this.
My sense of it (no proof, just opinion) is that Obama’s means of reconciliation clashes with Wright’s. I think Wright believes African-Americans are owed and the white man must pay and prostrate themselves in apology for the healing to begin. A message of “let’s move forward, forget the past and make a better tomorrow” (my paraphrasing) thing is in no way sufficient to Rev. Wright.
Just my $0.02. Don’t bother asking for cites on that.
Well, for those of us who are concerned with reality, truth, and fairness, it does matter. Public opinion is that Brittney Spears is important. Public opinion is that American Idol is more worth a vote than your local election. And this is how things go with you guys. Reality, like Kerry’s service, doesn’t matter. Public opinion is all that matters. And you’ll try and prey on the public’s fears, and even their racial sensitivity, to stop someone you don’t like getting elected. You must be so proud.
It’s going to be very satisfying to see Obama give his inaugural address with his kids and wife right there. Seriously, one thing Obama has no lack of is intuition. I think his choice of response to tough questions on more than one occasion were spot on.
Sadly so am I. When he made that speech I was hopefull and proud to be an Obama supporter. I still am. I think he needs to keep reminding people to not let themselves be distracted from the crucial issues by these kind of shallow dishonest tactics rather than allowing himself to be sucked into the game. I believe he could successfully use criticism of theses tactics to drive home his message of change needed in politics. He is a politician and I expect him to be one, but I hope that he behaves like the politician we’d rather have more than politicians we already have.
This kind of judgment is part of what’s wrong with politics. People are multifaceted and we regularly tolerate and are even friendly with people we disagree with or have some traits that offend us. It’s called being human. For some ridiculous reason we are told by the talking heads that this common human trait shouldn’t apply to the humans that are politicians. It’s bullshit and we should know better. I didn’t like Falwell much but I’d acknowledge that he did a lot of good for a lot of people along with the things I didn’t like.
It’s your job as president or senator to be able to work with and govern with people you strongly disagree with. Maybe we should see Obama’s friendship with Wright as the experience people keep saying he doesn’t have. 
Also unrealistic judgment. Wright also said many inspirational things in many sermons as well as acting on the principles of charity and social consciousness he preached. For crying out loud , do most people simply stop caring about or associating with someone based on a few comments they made you didn’t like. Does that outweigh every good thing they ever said or did? More bullshit. I’ve said it before. If we set the same standards that are being set for Obama for all candidates then nobody could get elected. Let’s try to have a realistic grasp oif what issues are truly important and stop allowing ourselves to be distracted by this kind of crap.
This is the bullshit argument some republicans will use to excuse their years of courting the religious right and ignoring and tolerating all the offensive things they said. “At least they weren’t friends for 20 years.” It’s an argument that has no basis in reality and offers no real excuse for the hypocrisy of those that are playing guilt by association now.
and nothing could be further from the truth???
I don’t agree with Wright on several things but there is a least a realistic basis for this man to recognize our countries history of racism even if it’s getting better with each passing generation.
Let’s also keep in mind that these brief sound bites are a small part of his message. I’ve listened to the extended versions of those sermons and the overall message was very different than the selected sound bites indicate. IOW your conclusion has no basis in fact.
No,I’ll grant you that’s a little bit of a mea culpa. Still, though, I’d like to see Obama take more responsibility. It was an obvious fuckup on his part to not distance himself from Wright before, in political terms even if nothing else. Not admitting that feeds the perception (pace his SF comments) that he’s arrogant.
That would be Chris “thrill up my leg” Matthews? :dubious:
He shouldn’t have had to distance himself from Wright before and were we a bit more mature and politically savvy he wouldn’t have to now. His first explanation of Wright being like an Uncle that he doesn’t agree with should have been enough.
Instead of asking him to anticipate just how easily the public can be distracted and manipulated by the media and take preventative steps in all his personal relationships we should be calling this BS for what it is and loudly denouncing those who seek to keep it going.
To idealistic? Unrealistic? Must it remain so?
Just as a point of interest here’sJohn Kerry telling a reporter to lay off the subject of Wright and start talking about real issues.
Go JK. Let’s all do more of that.
Shouldn’t we consider the fact that there’s no evidence that Wright preached that stuff in every sermon. I’ve listened to the extended version of those sermons the clips were taken from and can tell you that those clips are not the subject or substance of even those particular sermons much less any others. Those who pulled those clips and circulated them out of context did so with purposeful dishonest and malicious intent to mischaracterize Wright and Obama’s relationship with him. Maybe we should have some sense of outrage about that.
Wright was not a political adviser to Obama. As a prominent black minister he served on a committee about religion. Not too surprising or shocking.
My theory: Wright ramped up the rhetoric recently specifically in order to give Obama an excuse to forcefuly reject and denounce him.
-FrL-
Nah. It’s to promote a book he has coming out. Right around election time.
Excellent theory. I heard it verbalized this evening and it might very well be; in fact one Rep. said he just endorsed Obama because of that response.
The inoculation/strawman technique. LOL
Maybe I was wrong and he’s not just naive but actually nefarious and uber-cynical. Postpartisan, indeed! What a crock this whole guy’s campaign is/was.
If you Google “Wright Obama Mentor” you’ll have your choice of several to choose from.
Do your own work for once instead of constantly requesting “cite” for chrissake.
I have googled it and I couldn’t find Obama saying it. There are plenty of other people saying it, but no direct quote from Obama. He also specifically denied yesterday that Wright was ever his mentor.
Or he’s a blank wall on which you can paint all your fears and undocumented suspicions.
“Naive and nefarious” indeed.
[Franz Liebkind] “Make up your mind!!!” [/FL]
That’s not the SDMB tradition is it? If someone makes an assertion it is their responsibility to back it up.
Someone referring to Wright as Obama’s mentor is not a cite. There seems to be some evidence that Obama may have referred to Wright in that manner some time ago. I doubt that’s relevant now.