Obama Kicks Bush Torturers in the Nuts

[Merijeek]

@Lemur866

Obama releases the torture memos. Torture is bad, m’kay? And you members of the Bush team that authorized torture? You’re gonna get kicked in the nuts like this over and over again, over the next couple of years.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/olc_memos.html

Are they currently in a gulag awaiting trial? Because, if not, no, they didn’t get kicked in the nuts. They got away completely free.

-Joe

[Terrifel]

Attorney General Eric Holder:

"It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department.”

“Go bounce that guy’s head off the wall a couple times, and then dunk him under water for 20 minutes. Oh, and cover him with insects too; what the hell, see if that helps any.”

Yeah, I can see how it would be totally out of line to question any of that. Surely it would be unreasonable for anyone to be punished for defending our precious national values in such a manner. I feel safer already, I can tell you.

Somehow, the raw physical violence doesn’t disturb me as much as the fact that the United States Justice Department apparently maintains an Insect Room. Our nation has arrived at the point where, if the government thinks that you have information they really, really need, they will take you into a room, strap you down, and cover you with insects. That’s like a cartoon. I wonder if they actually encase the victim’s head in a transparent box before they pour the insects in?

At long last, America has become a nation that will cover you with bugs to force a confession. This is what is known as ‘the last reel.’

[The_Tao_s_Revenge]

@SpazCat

Doesn’t the UN have the ability to prosecute for war crimes? Is that a possibility?

Prolly not. The US never signed the treaty for the International Criminal Court. Bush, being the cowardly war criminal he is refused to sign.

[Catamount]

@The_Tao_s_Revenge

Prolly not. The US never signed the treaty for the International Criminal Court. Bush, being the cowardly war criminal he is refused to sign.

Oh well isn’t that darn convenient.

[eulalia]

@Lemur866

I just think Obama’s announcements that they aren’t interested in prosecuting these guys have a whiff of hostage negotiator to them. He doesn’t want to be seen as leading the charge. And so he’ll hold back publicly, and release all this crap, and pretty soon the American people are going to be demanding that these guys get prosecuted. And so, more in sorrow than in anger, he’ll give in and let justice take it’s course.

Or so I believe. Could be wrong. But a president who really really wanted to let these guys off the hook would’ve fought hard not to release these memos.

The ACLU already has a newsletter out with a link to send an email to Eric Holder demanding a special prosecutor to investigate this; I’ve sent mine. Unfortunately too many people think of ACLU members like me as left wing-nuts and crackpots because the right wing noise machine has been so effective in the past, so I am rather pessimistic about our outrage spilling over to the general public.

[Merijeek]

@Lemur866

And one more thing. Even if this never leads to the prosecution of more than a few of the perps, exposure is a pretty good second place. Especially exposure of the fact that the torture accomplished NOTHING. It’s one thing when the torturers could pretend to be Jack Bauer, kicking terrorist ass to keep Americans safe. It’s another when it’s revealed that they were lawyers writing memos, guys who needed a memo telling them it was OK before they’d do anything, guys who were just sadists, guys who tortured the wrong people, guys who provided no actual valuable intelligence, guys who ruined relations with friendly nations, guys who made things ten times harder for the people who were really trying to accomplish something in Iraq.

A Jack Bauer who makes his own rules and who tortures a scumbag to save New York can be forgiven. But that’s not who these guys were. They were bureaucrats who tortured helpless prisoners for nothing. And the truth will come out.

No, that can’t be right. It was made very clear to me, and the American people, that the “torture” was just “a few bad apples”. What changed?

-Joe

[Der_Trihs]

@Lemur866

Obviously certain types of people are going to support torture. But most Americans when confronted with the reality of torture will come around. They might think a terrorist deserves a bit of torture, but they aren’t going to like the idea that the CIA has the power to torture. It’s not so much what torture does to the victims as what it does to the perpetrators. People might imagine they want terrorists tortured, but they haven’t thought it through. Once they do, they’ll support prosecution of the torturers, those who gave the orders, and those who facilitated.

I wish I believed that, but I don’t. The majority of Americans in my experience are best described as “gloatingly sadistic”. They LIKE the idea of foreigners and “evildoers” being tortured.

@Lemur866

I just think Obama’s announcements that they aren’t interested in prosecuting these guys have a whiff of hostage negotiator to them. He doesn’t want to be seen as leading the charge. And so he’ll hold back publicly, and release all this crap, and pretty soon the American people are going to be demanding that these guys get prosecuted. And so, more in sorrow than in anger, he’ll give in and let justice take it’s course.

The same American public that re-elected Bush ? I see no reason to think that most Americans care all that much.

@Lemur866

But a president who really really wanted to let these guys off the hook would’ve fought hard not to release these memos.

They ARE off the hook.

[Lemur866]

They’re off the hook? Well, they aren’t in jail. Today.

And Holder’s statements indicate that they aren’t going to waste time prosecuting the goons. He hasn’t let the higher-ups off the hook.

If the goons get prosecuted and the higher ups don’t that’s a complete waste of time. There are plenty of goons in the world, prosecute the ones that actually carried out the torture and you’ve got thousands more ready and eager to take their place.

Forget the goons. They aren’t important. The higher-ups are the ones that are gonna get kicked in the nuts.

[Frank]

@Lemur866

Forget the goons. They aren’t important. The higher-ups are the ones that are gonna get kicked in the nuts.

It’d help if you could get a goon or three to turn state’s evidence. That’s not going to happen now.

[Boyo_Jim]

I believe the net punishment meted out in these cases will be one or two lawyers being disbarred with everyone else blaming them, and the disgraced lawyers will end up as well paid pundits on Fox News. In those roles they will torture the rest of us.

[Little_Nemo]

The only way this is going to get any more disgraceful is if memos surface that show the Bush administration was planning on instituting torture prior to the 9/11 attacks.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

I don’t see how that would make any difference. Torture is torture, even if you’re doing it because of vague threats of additional attacks.

[Rand_Rover]

Wait, where’s the part where Obama kicks “Bush Torturers” in the nuts? I see a release of government documents in response to a FOIA request.

[elucidator]

You wouldn’t understand.

[Rand_Rover]

You’re right–my unaddled brain can’t process the typical “thought” patters of a liberal douche.

Look, I disagree with lawyers’s opinions about the law all the time. It’s not that big a deal. Just because you people disagree with the OLC’s opinion about whether certain actions violated rules against torture doesn’t mean that anyone else should go to jail or has committed war crimes.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

I spend more on waxing my golf clubs than you’ve every spent on a house.

I win.

[Captain_Carrot]

@Rand_Rover

<typical superfluous insult deleted>
Look, I disagree with lawyers’s opinions about the law all the time. It’s not that big a deal. Just because you people disagree with the OLC’s opinion about whether certain actions violated rules against torture doesn’t mean that anyone else should go to jail or has committed war crimes.

Wrong. There is no room for disagreement on this. Waterboarding (and far too many things that the CIA did) is torture. Period. We’re better than that, and those methods get shitty results anyway.

[tim314]

@Rand_Rover

You’re right–my unaddled brain can’t process the typical “thought” patters of a liberal douche.

Look, I disagree with lawyers’s opinions about the law all the time. It’s not that big a deal. Just because you people disagree with the OLC’s opinion about whether certain actions violated rules against torture doesn’t mean that anyone else should go to jail or has committed war crimes.

Saying “disagree with lawyers’ opinions” is missing the point. There’s a moral issue here. They authorized torture. That’s reprehensible, whether they can squeeze it through some vague legal loophole or not.

Personally, though, I’m more concerned about this: What’s to stop the next President from canceling Obama’s no-torture order and starting right back up where Bush left off?

[MysteryFellow63427]

@The_Tao_s_Revenge

Prolly not. The US never signed the treaty for the International Criminal Court. Bush, being the cowardly war criminal he is refused to sign.

You don’t have to be a proponent of torture or a war criminal to realize how idiotic it would be to give a foreign tribunal with unknown political agendas jurisdiction over U.S. government officials. From a realpolitik perspective America gains nothing and loses everything by agreeing to such a scenario. But by all means, blame Bush.

[Guinastasia]

Scylla, I believe, actually underwent water-boarding at home with his wife, just to see how bad it was. IIRC, he said it WAS torture.