So if you were President, and MacArthur told you that we had to nuke China, you would have done it? Or would you have taken away that torque wrench from a five star general?
Times haven’t changed at all, only your memories.
The goal here isn’t to fix Afghanistan, which we can’t do, the goal here is to keep things stable enough for the next president to deal with as the American people do not wish a return to war status.
What’s happening here is that Democrats, like usual, are listening to the American people and also not being hypocrites. Only Republicans laud the military like their as unassailable, so when a Republican doesn’t listen to the military, their hypocrisy and harmful partisanship is in full view for all to mock. Democrats are not in lockstep with the military. When they disagree with the military, its for good reason. And because they never assume generals are never wrong, only Democrats have the credibility to go against their advice. No Republican has that credibility
Think of this like gay rights. No one much gives a damn if a Democrat is outed as gay because in general, Democrats do not accuse gays of bringing unto America the wrath of god and treating gays like second class citizens. Republicans do, however, so it is a HUGE deal when one of them is outed. Those people are typically the staunchest pro-family, anti-gay, religious bible thumping hypocrites there are, so it is proper to mock and jeer them for being outed as gay.
In the future, if people don’t want to be laughed at and mocked for going against military advice, don’t claim they are foolproof. Obama has never done that so I’m fine with him not taking the advice of generals. Bush didn’t, so he’s worthy to be mocked and laughed at
In this scenario, did I previously order MacArthur to turn vast parts of China into smoldering rubble? If not, then I’m not sure you’ve grasped my argument.
MacArthur wanted to nuke China to win the war in Korea. Winning the war in Korea was his policy objective: nuking China was his prefered method.
What was your argument again?
So is the president supposed to get all government agencies get there absolute fullest request? They are the experts, right?
Convoluted doesn’t begin …
The idea really is to balance a Presidential mandate with a military imperative. As we know, Presidents get all the easy decisions …
p.s. you look kind of weird trying to make ideological capital out of this
Obama Quote:
“I think that I’m a better speechwriter than my speechwriters. I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And I’ll tell you right now that I’m gonna think I’m a better political director than my political director.”
Stands to reason he is a better General than his Generals.
The first para is disingenuous, the latter plain stupid.
The quote is as reported by an interviewee. It’s one of several ways to test interviewees. Probably not a smart career move to repeat it if you want to be interviewed by serious people about serious jobs.
Although the OP is less than clear about what his intentions for this thread are it seems to have developed into a debate. Off it goes.
What an amazing example! 
Because nobody moans about mechanics do they? Because nobody distrusts mechanics and thinks that they often recommend work that isn’t needed, do they? :dubious:
The political situation back then was interesting. A lot of libs were afraid to appear anti-war, so they criticized the way the war was conducted. The whole Shinseki thing was great for this. I’m pretty sure most of the Bush critics back then were libs. Conservatives were in full wagon circle mode. Thomas Ricks was one prominent critic who was mildly conservative, but I’m having trouble thinking of others.
Although they’re both half the recommendation, I think some might see a difference between being told 10k and going with 5k, vs. being told 500k and going with 250k, or how one involves being a supplementary force to an existing army vs. invading a country and occupying it…
I’d have gotten a second opinion. If every general I spoke to said that nuking China was the only way to victory, I would have reconsidered my policy objectives in the Korean peninsula. I wouldn’t have said, “Don’t be silly, you only need some strong marines and some trusty M1 carbines, now get 'er done!”
I’m not smart on this stuff but according to the wiki there’s some debate over this claim.
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That was a grammatical mess, huh? This is why I shouldn’t post at five AM.
Still, is the military the only government agency that is supposed to get their full request with no questions?
You forgot to mention the part where Russia and China are increasing their military while U.S. military spending is decreasing. So I guess their evil plans of getting every federal dollar aren’t working.
Why would you get a second opinion? A war-hero general is saying extreme steps are needed to win the war. Shouldn’t you just do what he says, Mr. President, without questioning his expertise?
No, that’s mainly conservatives. This is one of the lamest “gotchas” in months, Flyer. Most liberals I know what us out of Afghanistan completely. More than a few conservatives feel that way, too.
What we didn’t do in 14 years, isn’t going to get done in 1 more year. I’m happy to call political BS on Obama since it looks like he just doesn’t want Afghanistan to collapse before the next election, but no CiC should blindly follow what the military commanders tell him.
FiaryChatMom brings up some good points, but that’s not military-specific. I worked in corporate American for many years, and we ALWAYS asked for more than we needed. At least you learned to do that after the first time you went thru the budgeting process and your request got cut in half.
Tbf to** Flyer**, he posted the thread in MPSIMS, presumably for shit and giggles.
It was humor on the hubris of Obama. I thought that was quite obvious.
And this is just the recommendation from one commander. What are the Joint Chiefs advising? What is the Sec of Defense advising? What is the National Security Advisor advising? What is his Chief of Staff advising? Presidents don’t just take advice from one person.
And how can we afford more troops in country when the Republicans are telling us we can’t afford food stamps or education or Planned Parenthood? 
No, I don’t have to listen to what he says. I can change my policy directives. If MacArthur says the only way we can defend the Korean peninsula from the horrors of communism is to nuke China, then I guess the Korean peninsula is fucked. Peace out.
What’s stupid is ignoring his recommendation and telling him that he can do the job by some other means, with fewer troops or less powerful weapons. That’s stupid, I’m not a military general. Where am I getting my ideas from? My ass? Wishful thinking?
But presidents do it over and over because they want to eat their cake and have it to.
If the CENTCOM commanders say we need 10,000 troops to accomplish whatever it is we’re trying to accomplish in Afghanistan, then Obama’s choices are to give them 10,000 troops, get the hell out of Afghanistan, or give them a more reasonable objective and ask what they need to accomplish that. If he has a number in mind, say, 5500 troops, then he needs to go back and forth with the generals until they can agree on what’s possible to accomplish with that number.