The ‘rapid dismissal’ was because once the police realized that Gates was powerful and connected, they treated him differently, or because once he had calmed down, the purpose of the arrest was served and they wanted nothing more to do with him.
So have I. I’m not generally a friend of the cops. In fact, because of the experiences of my youth, to this day I kind of see them as the ‘enemy’, and every time one is walking towards me I reflexively go over a checklist in my head of the things that could cause me trouble. Are my clothes okay? Do I look suspicious? Don’t make eye contact!
Nonetheless, I’m capable of seeing what actually happened here. The report isn’t a lie, unless the lie involves things that happened inside the home. Because once he was outside he had numerous witnesses to what was going on, including police officers from another jurisdiction, and there’s no way in hell he was going to lie about the facts on a police report under those circumstances.
And in any event, are any of these facts even under dispute? Is Gates claiming that something different happened?
This is the part that I think is crazy. The guy was screaming at the cop in public, in front of neighbors. The cop tried to defuse the situation, and couldn’t. In my neck of the woods, such behavior will get you arrested pretty much every time.
He was only in public because the cop told him to come outside, and because he was not responsive to Gates’ requests for information inside the house. If the officer had just politely excused himself immediately upon figuring out that Gates was the homeowner, the incident would have been over. I see little to no evidence, even in the police report, that the cop was trying to defuse the situation. That is your interpretation but it is not a fact.
Gates sounds like a real asshole. I know for a fact that if a neighbor saw a shadowy figure trying to break into my house and called the cops, they would show up. This has absolutely zero to do with race. Do the 911 dispatchers only send the cops if a black man is breaking in somewhere? Whites can burglarize residences with impunity?
That being said, I think the cop went overboard because his overinflated ego got bruised. Gates was probably tired and a bit flustered from coming back from a trip and being locked out of the house. Let him scream and yell for a few minutes and be on your way. You don’t have to be buddies with the guy, just verify that its his house and get out of there.
It’s also disingenous to say that “He was alarming the public!”. Well, if the cop cared about that so much, then why ask a visibly upset man to go INTO public when he could potentially alarm the passersby?
I’ve had it work both ways - I’m white. I don’t scream at people in authority - I’m rather intimidated by them. So I’m always nice and polite with policemen.
In one case, I had a jerk who answered the call when my house was broken into. He decided that this was a case where I must have an ex-boyfriend I was after or some such thing. Because all I wanted was a police report for the insurance - and because I was intimidated, I stood there and took it - but the insinuations that I was at fault for my own victimization were definitely present - and fifteen years later with more confidence, I would probably have ended up screaming at him.
Sometimes, cops are jerks. Sometimes, the people dealing with cops are jerks.
Well, he had to. Says so right there in the report, he had “pertinent information” that he could not transmit due to the poor acoustics and Mr. Gates yelling. You see, the information was “pertinent”, so, really, there was no choice.
Yes. This happens to me and my family three times a day. We all have to go into the back yard to talk, because it’s just so hard to hear in the kitchen.
I guess that “pertinent” information slipped his mind because he never mentioned it again either to Gates or in his report.
Hrm. I sense sarcasm, but I’ll go with it. There was nothing vitally important that couldn’t have been transmitted when he asked for the campus police to show up and all that jazz. Anything else just ties up the channel, which is something dispatchers don’t particularly like. He had, apparently, an entire gallimaufry of other cops outside. Had something really been needed to be broadcast, I’m sure one of them could have done it.
His conduct is completely unprofessional. This officer needs some serious work on his IPC skills.
I’m sure I’d want to go into the back yard to talk, if there was some fool screaming in my kitchen.
Until I see some evidence that the police officer took an action that warranted Gates screaming at him, I’m placing the majority of fault on Gates. Thus far, I don’t see it, what I see is someone attacking a cop for doing his job. Yes, the cop probably should have just walked away, but I’m really tired of people suggesting that it’s totally OK for the police to get abused while doing their jobs. That, unless they are on the verge of being physically assaulted, they have to suck it up, and even when they are in a physical confrontation, that they fight “fair” and risk serious personal injury.
Being an asshole is not an arrestable offense. the cop was pissed because he did not get the respect he thinks he deserved. If after Gates proved it was his house ,the cop left it would have been over. Just turn around and go.
The police are having a press conference saying how they back the officer. What a surprise. The mayor however does not.
The cops are saying they will not second guess the cops decision to arrest Gates. Isn’t that the point? I second guess. It did not have to be done.
Now the cop wants an apology from the mayor, the governor and Obama. Good luck with that.
Gates better not speed or have a headlight go out.
You don’t get to disturb the peace from private property. Like it or not, you can’t play your music, too loudly, you can’t let your dog bark all night long, you can’t scream, holler and rave like a maniac and if you ARE raving like a maniac, even if you’re on on your front porch, you can and in most cases should be grabbed up and brought back to your senses, even if you aren’t charged.
According to reports Gates followed the cop outside and was warned twice in the presence of witnesses and other cops before being taken in.
This has nothing, (no matter how much people think it does) to do with the race of the man and everything to do with the way this ‘educator’ acted in the public way. Even teenagers know if the cops tell you to go inside and shut up, that’s the best course of action. Fact is the cop doesn’t WANT to arrest your loud-mouthed ass, he wants to deal with real criminals, but if you seem to be agitated and imbalanced, he has a libility leaving you there. The concern is for the safety of everyone, not just some jackass who wants to throw his buddy’s name around. Further, according to reports, the Officer turned Gates’ house over to Harvard maintenance personnel in order to secure it and made sure he was cuffed in front so he could use his cane.
Henry Louis Gates was being a dick and was called on it. He did NOT have to go outside, he did not have to follow the officer outside, the ‘pertinent information’ may well have been that he was about to clear the call and leave. He could have called the station and gotten the Officers’ information instead of following hm outside for it. If he is a Harvard professor, he should have acted like one instead of like Al Sharpton looking for his next headline.
The cop was doing his job professionally and I stand behind him. I am losing the grip on my position behind Mr. Obama however. I was a voter, I am beginning to regret it.
Which means what? Do you think the individual officers are less likely to be racist or abuse their power because they work in a rich area? Seeing as there have been problems between the HU police and blacks before, and a long history or racial conflict in the greater Boston area, I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that the Cambridge police are plagued by similar problems.
But you can’t automatically discount Gates’ “screams” of racism any more than you can rely on the absence of racial animus detailed in the officer’s report. Your conclusion seem to be solely based on the officer’s account rather than what likely happened. Do you honestly think this would have happened to Larry Summers or some other white person of their ilk?
Do you honestly think that race never factors into your decision making as an officer? What about police officers in general? Because denying that it does play a role seems to fly in the face of countless studies and mountains of evidence to the contrary. Race seems to factor into the most mundane interactions in both positive and negative ways. To reflexively deny that it was a factor in a situation where one of the two parties (a respected Harvard professor) involved alleges that it might seems foolish.
Yes, naturally anyone who thinks differently than you is an asshole irrespective of how reasoned his argument is.
I don’t back the officer. It’s completely uncalled for to escalate a situation and massage someone into a position to arrest them.
Indeed, it isn’t politically expedient to vouch for officers who aren’t professional. I completely agree. This, however, is the only reasonable point you’ve made.
Yes, because his admittedly biased, personal opinion based on the facts as he knew them at the time isn’t a right of speech possessed by the President of the United States; only its citizens huh? It’s curious to note that he made clear it was his own biased opinion. I think it’s refreshing to have a politician actually say something he actually believes. Of course, in the future he should shut the fuck up about things he actually believes and just dissemble so as to keep people like you happy.
Yes, we were talking. But you interrupted. Did you have something intelligent to contribute, other than taking note that politicians don’t find it expedient to vouch for unprofessional police officers? If so, I welcome your reasoned, articulate, logical argument.
This s putting a lot of faith in the cop’s ability to retain information he would have learned a long time ago. Remind me to test you on what you were supposed to learn in school, and see if you can get 100%.
I think it’s most likely that the cop had no idea that what he was doing might be considered unconstitutional. If he did, I would definitely consider that bad behavior, though. But, as far as I know, cops generally take it for granted that policies are legal. They assume some lawyer or judge would have done something if they weren’t. And, as far as I’m concerned, it is their responsibility to enforce rules until they are removed.
Right, the cop MADE the man walk out on to his porch and rant and yell and rave, sure. What’s next, the devil made me do it? Spare me the hand-wringing.
No, it’s not politically expedient to go against Obama. For now. This officer treated the arrestee with professionalism and tact. The fact that he was placed under arrest ruffles feathers, but the arrest was solid, despite what the mayor, you, or Mr. Obama have to say about it.
No. Even Bill Cosby thinks the same way
The Entire Article It’s from the Christian Science Monitor, the first google hit that came up.
What I have to contribute is experience as a police officer and public servant for 20 years. My reasoned, articulate and logical argument comes from having dealt with ALL manner of people in those 20 years and having not one (valid) complaint about the way I’ve done my job. I’ve managed to save a few lives, make my world a little bit better and come home every night (or morning) for those 20 years. So you can sit there in smug self-righteousness defending Mr. Gates, but that defense reveals nothing but your to-the-bone ignorance.
Every cop member of this board will claim to be perfect in their dealings with the public. Can they also attest for all the cops on the force? It is not about you. It is about one cop and one citizen. it is about the cops ego. It seems he might have just got angry because he did not get the respect he demanded. Disrespect is not an arrestable offense. The cop could have and should have walked.No story .no harm. But he apparently felt like he had to make a point. Why?
Cops support cops. Whats new.
This is the part I don’t get, know matter how many times I try. Why are you so determined to give the cop the benefit of the doubt? Why not, at a minimum, say “I don’t know who is at fault”? Why label Gates the ass, when he was not the one who wasted taxpayer money by arresting someone who is not a danger to anyone else?
If the cop came at Gates with a snide, accusatory attitude upon first encountering him and asking for identification (which I could easily see taking place…jerks do exists…and in this situation, I could definitely see how a cop could say something insensitive, even one who is normally on top of things), then Gates had every right to be pissed. Even if the cop had behaved like a boy scout, Gates had every right to ask for his name and badge number. That identifcation should have been turned over to him just as–if not more promptly–than the ID that the cop demanded of Gates. And yet, the cop put unnecessary preconditions on meeting that request–preconditions that were used to entice Gates out of the house which rather conveniently is where could be legally arrested. So why is Gates faulted for losing his temper? He met his end of the bargain, but did the cop?
I swear, if the shoe were on the other foot and we were handicapping a situation in which a cop lost his temper and ended up pounding a sassy citizen in the face or tazing them a couple times, 2/3rd of the SDMB would be declaring the guy a hero. Have a citizen lose his temper when dealing with a cop who, at minimum, was not being forthcoming with information he is legally obligated to provide, and 2/3rds of the SDMB still come to the defense of the cop. Can we get some consistency please?
The whole “the acoustics in the house were bad” defense is so precious I’m rather astonished how readily some of yall are gobbling that up. Everything the cop needed to say to Gates could have been said at the threshold of the door. Name, badge number, goodbye. Unless Gates lives in a Siberian wind tunnel, it is insanely implausible to think he had to move things outside merely to exchange “pertinent information”.
Yes, I would. If the police were the target of the disturbance, I would want them to do something about it by LEAVING so that they could no longer be the target. I would NOT, under any circumstances, want them to arrest my neighbor for the “crime” of yelling. I would not want my neighbor arrested for yelling at ME; being arrested for yelling at the police, who are supposedly trained to handle such, is just unconscionable.
I’ll say this again: the police must be held to a higher standard of conduct than an ordinary citizen. It is NOT silly to say that the police escalated the situation, they escalated it from simple yelling to an arrest. The police are not even supposed to respond in kind to something like yelling; responding with the even higher response of arresting the guy – when there was absolutely no evidence or indication that he intended to do anything other than continue to yell – is completely unacceptable.
We’re not talking about a man who was being dangerous here. Gates never threatened anyone. By the officer’s own report, there was no indication of a public safety risk. By his own report, there were only a few citizens within hearing distance. To say that the arrest was justified on some grounds of protecting the public or keeping the peace is just not supported by the officer’s own report. Based on his own words, it’s clear that the officer arrested Gates solely because Gates continued to yell at the officer. In other words, it was personal, and had nothing to do with the public.
I’m sorry, but that makes me discount your opinion. My expectation is that police officers will protect their own. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but stating that you are an officer brings up an expectation of bias. (We’re all have bias, it is just that some are more easy to categorize than others).
To me, this boils down to a question of how do I want police to treat the citizenry. I didn’t like the way the officer treated the situation. I don’t like the way Gates treated the situation either, but he doesn’t work for the City of Cambridge! I think criticism of the Police should be common and accepted. The knee-jerk reaction of police are always right troubles me. I’d be very happy if police videotaped all interactions with the public.
Yes. This happens to me and my family three times a day. We all have to go into the back yard to talk, because it’s just so hard to hear in the kitchen.