Obama says cops acted stupidly in Gates incident

The BBQ Pit
161

I agree with this.

What happened to Gates could have happened to any number of people at the same time across the country (and likely did) and only because Gates has some affiliation with Obama do we know about it. Further, the way it came out at his press conference seemed staged and planted.

From what I’ve gleaned, the Sgt. had every right to take Gates into custody. If Gates never left the house, this wouldn’t be an issue. The only mistake was not actually leveling the charge of disorderly conduct, and at least writing a local ordinance ticket or low level fine-based instrument as opposed to arrest.

Point: charges DO get dropped all the time. Being arrested/taken into custody only means something if you’re actually charged with an offense. People are arrested all the time on suspicion of this or that, then once the evidence is sorted and it’s discovered they didn’t actually break the law, they are let go and the “charges dropped”.

Gates was being an asshole. In public. Cops don’t have to arrest him for that, but they can and in this case they did. End of story. Obama should have kept his mouth shut about it, ESPECIALLY because of the very bias for Gates he mentioned.

The actions of the cop were right, even if Gates wasn’t wrong.

162

Quiet you.

163

THe officer already knew what was “going on” by his own admission. He knew it was a case of mistaken identity, and that Gates was the homeowner. The only confusion was that the officer felt he wasn’t getting the cooperation and respect he deserved. That’s not a reason to arrest anyone.

I don’t think anyone knows for sure what part race played in the matter, but I can assure you that is it a factor in more interactions, particularly ones involving law enforcement. The most telling thing about this situation, and many others like it, is that you rarely hear of similar things happening to white people. Do you ever hear of cops shoving plungers up white people’s asses, or shooting them 41 times?

While I think this situation highlights abuse of law enforcement power, irrespective of race, you have to admit that it seems that officers tend to abuse their power more often when they deal with minorities.

164

We’re talking about the Cambridge, Mass police department - not some major urban department short on funds. They are probably one of the most well-trained and well-surpervised police departments you’ll find in this country. There is absolutely nothing in this story, other than Gates screaming racism, that indicates that race played a part in the arrest. He was disorderly, he was arrested. That’s about it.

I’ve arrested lots of white people for DC, many within the walls of their own house. Hell, I’ve arrested lots of people for lots of things. When people deserve to get arrested, they get arrested. Period.

Gates began his tirade prior to identifying himself and he continued it when he went outside. Tough luck for him. I would expect much more from a Harvard professor. The police were there to potentially protect his property, and he starts abusing them because they were in his house to carry out that task.

165

Gates may have been being an asshole. On his own private property. Which by then the cop knew. Cops (was this one’s name Carter?) might be able to arrest him for not agreeing to “Respect my authority!” but doing so is stupid.

How is this even debatable?

What additional facts could you possibly you need to know?

Obama wisely stated explicitly that he did not the facts to know whether or not race played any role, even if he knows from his own past experiences that such was likely the case. But we all have enough facts to know that it was stupid to arrest him when the cop knew that Gates was the homeowner on his own property for the crime of not being respectful enough of his authority. And Obama would rightly have been mocked by the likes of me (mildly left of center) and all points left if he refused to state even that obvious fact.

166

Particularly in hindsight. Out of context this is some guy getting hauled in because he was an ass to a cop. Happens all the time. Happens to white guys and Hispanic guys (though I’m told it happens disproportionally to black guys). But in hindsight ‘some guy’ is:

America’s preeminent scholar of African American History
Has Charles Ogletree as a lawyer
Is someone the President considers a friend.
Does not have a reputation for behaving badly. If this WERE Al Sharpton, we’d all roll our eyes and say “figures.”

We can argue about privilege and if white privilege exists. But we live in a society where, in theory, all men are equal - and in fact, well placed famous people with connections are treated differently. And not by the law - although I’m sure that happens - but by the media and the public.

Arresting Henry Louis Gates created a debate about how black men are treated - which is good for the public debate - even if we don’t all agree what went down here. But its bad for the Cambridge police department - who frankly doesn’t need the distractions of the media circus or the accusations that this even might have been racially motivated. Creating THAT circus was, at least in hindsight, stupid. From the point of view of the Cambridge police, charges were dropped and they exposed themselves to public criticism. Arrest Paris Hilton or Lindsey Lohan for driving drunk, throw the book at her, and people cheer that you’ve successfully prosecuted a spoiled brat for a real crime that endangers others. Arrest Henry Louis Gates for yelling at you in his own front yard and public opinion on your actions is going to be a lot more divided.

167

What should he apologize for? I don’t know - maybe for wasting his time? Maybe for accusing him of something that he didn’t do? Maybe for embarassing him in front of his neighbors? Maybe for coming to the mans private residence and disturbing his peace? Maybe for escalating an incident that should have been dropped already? Maybe for treating a highly educated Harvard Professor like a common criminal? Look - in my world, if someone accuses me of something I didn’t do, I get a little angry about it. If I then prove that I didn’t do it - I first expect the person to stop accusing me of it. And then I expect that person to apologize. I guess that’s just me.

Again - because this keeps getting ignored - up until the point where Gates showed proof of residence, I’m fine with what the LEO did. As everyone is fond of pointing out - he was just doing his job, protecting and serving. But, once he learned that Gates lived in the house and that no crime had been committed, it was now the LEOs obligation to difuse the situation and leave. Instead - again, AFTER learning that no crime had been committed - the LEO escalated the incident (calling for more police, moving outside so he could use the public disturbance excuse, etc.).

I’m a little surprised at how common this notion seems to be. It appears that, after I prove that no crime was commited - I should sit around while the cop continues to escalate the situation by calling for more police. And after that - I should kiss his ass and thank him?

168

Just to clarify a couple of things: The police learned that the crime of Burglary had not been committed, but now the crime of Disorderly Conduct is being committed by Gates. Also, dispatchers, as a matter of policy, send AT LEAST two units to a possible burglary. Calling for backup is routine and you shouldn’t read anything into it.

And to say that the police escalated the incident is silly. The Sergeant walked outside because Gates was screaming so loudly that he (the Sgt) couldn’t hear his radio, so he stepped outside, only to be followed by Gates, who CONTINUED to scream and carry on, in violation of the local laws. Everything I can find on this story only shows Gates as the one screaming, not the police. If your neighbor was creating a disturbance, wouldn’t you want the police to do something about it?

Please understand, people can be arrested from inside or outside their house for Disorderly Conduct. Being at home does not make one immune from arrest. Nor does being black, or white, or rich, or a friend of the President. However, I’m sure the charges would’ve stuck had he not been a professor at Harvard or a friend of the President.

Gates is 100% guilty. What was stupid by the police dept is they should have known that arresting such a high profile figure would only open a can of worms. Money does have its privileges. But the Sergeant did what he needed to do and he isn’t apologizing for it, and I salute him for standing his ground against baseless accusations.

169

Usually when police arrest innocent people on their own property they are jack-booted thugs. I wonder what was different about this time. Oh yeah, no guns were confiscated, so it’s all cool.

170

And just to clarify your “clarification” - this was not what happened. You seem to be saying that, on determining that no crime has been committed, it is SOP to then call for backup? Interesting - doesn’t seem too efficient to me - but I’m no cop. For the record - he didn’t call for backup from his own department. He called a completely different department. And he did it after determining that no crime had been committed. So the call must have gone something like this: “Hey there Harvard Cops. Listen - I’m over at the Gates residence where I’ve just determined that no crime has been committed. Do y’all mind swinging on by?” To this, I just gotta ask - WHY? He knew that Gates was all worked up - and so he had to know that calling more cops wasn’t going to make things better. It seems to me he was just egging him on at this point.

Again - why not leave immediately after determining that no crime had been committed?

Look - they were talking to a guy about a potential break in. They got proof that there wasn’t one - but in the process, the guy becomes a royal prick and starts yelling. At this point - there is one sure-fire way to difuse the situation - turn around and walk away. Why on earth would they not do this? How does it serve the public good to stay any longer and further enrage this douche? Please - I actually want to know - who was the cop protecting and serving at this point? If yelling in public is such a bad thing - then 1) don’t invite the guy who is yelling outside, and 2) if he’s yelling at you, and you no longer have a reason to be there, then just leave. Admitedly - not as satisfying as arresting someone - but just as effective at eliminating all that dangerous yelling that was going on.

Police have very tough and dangerous jobs. And dealing with jerks like this really has to suck. But I also expect the police to understand that if they show up and falsely acuse someone, then that person might get justifiably angry. And once it’s proven that no crime was committed, then I expect the police to work to diffuse the situation. Clearly - that’s just me, since many people in this thread are happy with the notion that cops can come to anyones house and arrest them simply for raising their voice (yellling, screaming, whispering, sign-language - whatever, right?). Me - not so much. I guess I hold our police to a higher standard then many.

171

My understanding was that he called the Harvard police because all Gates showed was a Harvard ID, which did not have an address on it. He called them to determine if Gates was indeed who he said he was.

172

That’s possible - it’s hard to know for sure. But I think a strict reading of the police report doesn’t support that. Here’s the wording from the report:

This, to me, doesn’t sound like he radioed to confirm his affiliation or validate the ID. It sounds to me like he accepted the ID - but then wanted the Harvard cops to show up because of his affilitation (not to confirm his affiliation). But - I’ll concede that this point isn’t overly clear and you may well be right.

If your assumption is right - and the cop honestly didn’t believe that Gates really lived there, then I’ll concede much more in this debate. But based purely on the police report, I don’t really believe that. I don’t read any doubt on the cops part as to Gates’ real identity or place of residence.

173

I cannot believe this attitude has any traction. We should be kissing cops’ asses for doing their jobs? I’m a public servant too, and trust me, no one kisses my ass for doing my job. Everyone deserves to be treated with politeness and decorum, and this officer did not receive it, but an ass kissing? No way. Sorry, that’s ridiculous. I have to wonder if you kiss your mail man’s ass, and your sanitation workers’, and your meter maid’s…

174

First, there would have been no crime committed if said cop on determining that man in house belongs there and owns house is not guilty of any crime, immediately excuses himself and leaves. The man in the house would have no one to yell at if cop leaves. But, cop wanted to push buttons a bit longer and invites man in house to step outside so that if man in house yells in the same manner as he was yelling in his house, he could then be charged and arrested for being a public nuisance. The police know better not to allow this to go any further than it has gone so far, cos if it comes up in a court of law, a good attorney will rip Sergeant Crowley a very large new one.

BTW, should Sargent Crowley who has been a patrol officer in this neighborhood for quite sometime now not have determined ahead of time who owns the house before approaching as a result of the initial call? One could argue that a good police officer who patrols a specific neighborhood would know some of the prominent citizens that reside in that neighborhood. Professor Louis Gates is very well known in Cambridge and MASS, well published author who has been on TV quite a bit, so if you are a good police officer that patrols his neighborhood, it’s surprising that you don’t know him, and you never took the time to call ahead on your way to that address to determine who owns the building before your arrival.

Fishy, fishy, fishy stuff…

175

Well, this Gates bloke is now famous for being an asshole. I didn’t catch the officer’s name.

Really, the whole world learning about you shouting cretinous bollocks at policemen like some crazed wino does not look good on your resume, even if you are a personal friend of the president and can get the charges dropped.

176

I read it in the newspaper today-- a quote from the cop, but it wasn’t in the police report.

177

That’s absurd. It is “fishy” that a cop doesn’t know the identity in advance of a person living in a house he’s called to investigate? Isn’t the point of answering a call to a possible burglary in progress to get there fast?

What’s the theory here? That the cops knew in advance that this guy was a famous prof, knew in advance that merely answering a burglary call would send him on a tirade, and lured him into being arrested? For what possible reason?

178

A while ago, I erroneously made a 911 call (I mishit a number on my phone). The cops arrived, and I had to explain that nothing was wrong. Kind of a similar situation.

I was nice and polite. They asked me a few questions. I asnwered them calmy. They thanked me for my time and went away.

Question: Was this exchange uneventful because:

a) I’m white, or
b) because I didn’t scrream at them like a raging lunatic for doing their job?

I grew up on the ‘wrong side of the tracks’. Therefore, I got to interact with the police lots, and saw other people interacting with them. I never did anything wrong, but I was often stopped just for hanging outside with my friends, or pulled over in my car because there were four kids in an old beater. What I learned was that no matter who you are, if you are polite and cooperative, everything will be cool. If you start by standing on your ‘rights’ and become abusive with the cop, you’re guaranteed a trip to the police station.

Really, people. I don’t know how anyone can read that transcript and not put about 95% of the blame on Gates. He behaved like an asshole from the outset. The cop went outside, and Gates followed him out and continued screaming at him. At some point, Gates’ behavior crossed the line into disorderly conduct in public, and he was arrested.

This happens all the time. I’ve seen it many times, with white people. Start ranting and shouting at the police in public, and you WILL be arrested.

Gates is not a civil rights hero here. He’s a man of wealth and privilege who expected to be treated differently than everyone else because of his status. He lost his cool and screamed continually at a pubic servant trying to do his job. The consequences for this weren’t even that severe. He got a trip to the police station to cool down, then he was released. Big deal.

So why arrest him? There are two good reasons why abusing a cop in public will get you arrested: 1) if you’re ranting and screaming and threatening, you’re violating the public peace and possibly a risk of violent behavior or of inciting others into violent behavior, so the cops detain you to cool you down, and 2) because the police need a certain amount of deference to be able to do their jobs effectively, and allowing someone to rant and scream at them and publicly refuse to cooperate with routine requests undermines their authority and makes it harder for them to do their job in the future within that community.

Now, I’m not saying Gates should have been arrested, but I don’t think it’s egregious that he was, and I see absolutely no evidence that the arrest was racially motivated. In fact, it looks to me that he got treated a hell of a lot better than anyone from my neighborhood would have been had we behaved the same way, and the only person who turned this into a race issue was Gates himself.

And think about this: What would the message be if Gates had not been arrested? The message would be that the rich and powerful and connected can get away with stuff that would get the average person tossed in the can.

Tell you what: Next time you get pulled over for speeding, or better yet get stopped for a random DUI check when you’re innocent, why don’t you start screaming at the officer? For extra points, get out of your car and follow him back to his and continue screaming at him.

Then use your phone call to call someone who can log on here and let us know how that worked out for you.

179

The policeman’s report is proof of nothing. He was involved and he wrote it. He was not going to give proof of his crappy attitude. The only acceptable proof was the rapid dismissal and departmental apology.
This is a thread of the "usual suspects’. There is a group who always side with the cops. My experiences with the cops have not been that good. I have never been in any serious trouble but I have seen the cops lie several times. A lawyer friend describes police testimony as “now the lying begins”. They are judged by a conviction rate. If they arrest a bunch of people and they are exonerated ,they are judged to wasting tax payer money. So they do their best to get convictions.
If the cop would have just gone away once he saw Gates was the homeowner ,it would have been over. But his ego insisted on retribution for not showing deference and sufficient respect. Officer “Cartman” was wrong.

180

Do you not see the difference between being pulled over for a DUI and standing in your own home and on your own front porch? Also, Gates was told by the officer to follow him, slightly different from aggressively pursuing someone who is just trying to walk away.