You did sort of imply it, now, didn’t you? Referencing “in today’s bizzaro world”, which invites the reader to believe that the world is more “bizarro” that it was once. Your many, many fans will also note that you regard 1968 as the Anno Horribilis, the turning point on the Hellbound Train ride.
Beside, how could someone as drug-addled as myself be “devious”?
Yes, you did. Not in this thread, maybe, but in others you have expounded on how the country (and the world) has been on a downhill slide since 1968. Now when your declaration comes back to you, you deny having made it.
Damn. I might have to re-think my opinion.
I hate being on the same side of an argument as Hitchens.
After reading this thread and the other in IMHO, it saddens to me to see that racial bias is still so pernicious that the credibility of a world-famous Harvard personage whose acumen, professionalism, and personal character have been found to be in good standing, who is both well-regarded in his community and a respected scholar, is somehow trumped by that of a cop who no one knows anything about except for maybe a few, grasping details that only have been released as a defense tactic. And to see that Gates is still being hotly derided and belittled and villified, even when evidence comes out that the cop might be a little loose with facts…well, yeah, I’m going choose Racial Bias for $2000, Alex. That’s the most parsimonious explanation.
Forget about the supposed racism associated with investigating a man for breaking into his own home and then arresting him for expressing displeasure and even (gasp) demanding to have the cop’s name and badge number in a testy manner. Although I question whether an elderly white professor would have been treated the same, it’s possible for me to entertain some room for doubt (although very little) that racism led to this stupid outcome (amen Obama, amen).
What I’m nigh certain of is that if a white Harvard professor of Gate’s celebrity had been arrested for essentially being a crotchedy old man, absent would be the pages upon pages of strenuous defenses on behalf of some Joe Schmoe beat cop. Of all things, that’s what sticks out to me the most in Gates-gate: the inordinate defense of a complete stranger.
I think some of yall are so beseiged with bias that you’ve completely and totally lost your mortal minds.
I think images such as this play a significant role in the fact that many people here are of the opinion that Gates’s behavior was considerably at odds with your image of him. Notice the presence of a black officer on the scene, likely the same one who commented that Gates was behaving “strangely”, and notice also the officer on the right whose gesture seems to be one of trying to get Gates to calm down.
Then we have the accusation by Gates of his being “profiled”. This does not meet the definition of profiling as I understand it. To me, profiling is when someone going about their business in public is stopped and investigated primarily because of their race or appearance. Gates was being investigated because there was a report of a possible break-in at what turned out to be his house. His race had nothing to do with why the police were there.
It seems that Gates was angered that the police had the gall to think that because he was a black man he had broken into the house, when in fact they were responding to a citizen’s report that there may have been a break-in and whoever they found there was likely going to come in for some investigative questioning regardless of the color of their skin.
Had Gates simply said: “I’m sorry for the confusion officer. This is my house. I had to force the door after forgetting my key. My name is Henry Gates and I’m a professor at Harvard University. Here is my Harvard I.D. and driver’s licence” (or whatever would have shown he lived there…a bill from the electric company or whatever), I have no doubt that the police would have thanked him, apologized for the intrusion, and been on their way.
To me the racism in this situation is coming from those who are claiming that Gates was “profiled” (this includes Gates himself) and those who seem to think that just because Gates was a black man the cops should have bent over backward to avoid having to deal with him and instead should have scurried away to their squad cars and slunk away under a hail of righteous invective.
You know that is what Gates did. He gave him university Id and a drivers license. The cop knew very quickly that he lived there.
No, I didn’t know that. The reports I read indicated that he showed them an I.D. that had no address and more or less refused to show them anything else, and that it was only after his tirade had been going on for a while with the cops refusing to accept his word that he did eventually relent and show I.D. which had an address.
Then, at that point, the police apparently did what one would expect and tried to leave, only to have Gates follow them outside hurling insults and invective, which of course and understandably led to his arrest.
I’m curious to know if you with the face feels that Colin Powell is being racist in his opinion that Gates was out of line? Cite
Maybe it’s good to do more research before you formulate an opinion? Everything you’re hearing about Gates’ behavrior is coming from the police, the same police who seem to be lying in the actual police report. One has to wonder why an officer would put in his report attribute it to a witness only to find out that the witness is making a point of saying that’s not what they said. Why create a narrative of two black men with backpacks when the witness never said that? Why continue to believe the statements of people that seem to be lying?
He didn’t say gates was out of line, just that he shouldn’t argue with the police but he also said this:
SA, does it bother you that Sgt. Crowley lied on the police report?
You are blind. Why do you think I was responding to you? I was responding to Gonzomax.
I admit, I chose 1950 in an arbitrary fashion, because I assume Gonzo is not over 60 years old. But if he is, I tossed in some 30s action.
Not everything is about you, Starving Artist.
In my opinion, there was no racial profiling in this case. It was cop profiling. Eg: you give me lip, I bust your ass. Gates gave the guy lip, he got his ass busted. Sure, the charges wouldn’t stick, but by god, he’ll respect the cops next time! Right!
It may not be racial profiling, but the police most certainly racialized the incident by lying on the report thinking that would help their narrative. The officer believes by lying and saying that a witness reported two black men with backpacks on the porch of the house that that would bolster his side of the story if the arrest or charge was questioned.
The officer in question credibilty is questionable but yet everything that people have believed about Gates’s behavior is coming from this same officer. I guess he’s just lying about that one part but not anything else.
Gates says he gave a MA drivers license. I have already posted a link to his account somewhere in this thread. The officer has been shown not to be 100% truthful in his police report, so it’s hardly clear who should be believed.
Sigh. Why does this have to be repeated over and over? The officer was not leaving. He was going outside to talk on his radio. He TOLD Gates to come outside if he wanted to talk further. Gates wanted his badge #, which the officer would not give, so he went outside, and bam. Arrested.
Colin Powell, like most people capable of holding a nuanced view of the issue, thinks that both parties behaved badly. He has criticism for both Gates and the officer.
Well, for one thing I confess I haven’t been arsed to read the latest updates, which seem to be coming out several times a day.
I also know from experience how such inconsistencies can occur without lying being the reason. With regard to the suitcase/backpack issue, the citizen report could have said suitcases and when the officers arrived they may have spotted backpacks near the door. Thus they just switched the bags from suitcases to backpacks in their minds, thinking that either the citizens misspoke or the dispatcher did.
I know that if I was a police officer investigating a break-in and was immediately met with anger and accusations of racism by the person who answered the door, I’d be thinking that perhaps this person is indeed a miscreant and one who believes the best defense is a good offense.
Again, if Gates had responded as calmly and reasonably as most other people would have in the same situation, the problem would never have occurred.
Powell said:
“When you’re faced with an officer trying to do his job and get to the bottom of something, this is not the time to get in an argument with him,”
and
“I think he should have reflected on whether or not this was the time to make that big a deal,”
To me this says he believes Gates was out of line. YMMV.
Yes, he did. And that would seem to be a wise course of action.
But then what? They take the handcuffs off and Gates becomes even more convinced of his righteousness and storms after them and continues to berate them even as they’re driving off?
The police simply can’t allow people to behave that way toward them if they are going to be effective and taken seriously in dealing with the public.
(It is probably worth noting that Gates was handcuffed with his hands in front instead of behind. This is generally considered a courtesy, and is afforded to arrestees who are being handcuffed as a matter of procedure rather than because they present a risk of attack or of attempting to escape.
Oh? What makes you think that the black officer was “likely the same officer who commented…”? Or would you simply prefer that to be the case? And that gesture may be a benediction from the precinct chaplain, for all you know. Before you offer such evidence, you need to show us your Certificate of Telepathy.
For all you know, that’s exactly what did happen, except for that last part. You seem to have overlooked the part where you make reference to established facts.
Yes, as a matter of fact. Mr Gates was on his own property, expressing his displeasure. He was not in violation of any law, as has been amply illustrated.
Insulting a cop is no more illegal than insulting a hippy. If you think about it, I think you will agree that this is a good thing. So, no, it is not “understandable”. The word you’re looking for is “illegal”.
Okay they switched the suitcases to backpacks… So where did that get the “black men” from? How about the imaginary conversation with the witness at the scene concerning said black men with back suitcases?
All well and good but the officer’s credibility is questionable maybe he also lied about what he was met with.
You’re taking the officers word on this but like I said, he has a truth issue.
Fine, that’s not what Powell said though.
So you believe the police should never be questioned? Asked for their badge number or name?
This shows thay you don’t really know the facts, but yet you’re writting as if you do. Why is that?
Are you sure?
I thought you handcuff someone to the front if they are going to be sitting in the police car. (If you cuff to the rear, they may end up having to sit on their wrists.)
I assume different jurisdictions each have their own cuffing policies.
When you evolve sufficiently, you transcend mere fact to a higher truthiness.
And the quote my Gonzomax regarding twisting an old woman’s arm was in response to what I said. Thus your reply, along with elucidator’s “cops were great before 1968” crack, seemed in answer to what I said as well.
If you didn’t mean to address me, then I’ll rescind.
Easy-peasy, huh?
Somehow I doubt it.
Rubystreak, I have to leave. But I will say again that if Gates had been reasonable and behaved like 99% of the rest of the population would have in similar circumstances, the problem of his arrest would never have occurred.
I would also point out that you don’t know whether the officer lied or was simply mistaken. When things are flying hot and heavy and lots of stuff is going on, impressions get made that are not necessarily correct. For instance it’s not unusual for ten victims of a robbery or participants in an automobile accident to give ten different descriptions or versions of what actually happened.
Thus the fact that there are inconsistencies between the police report and the tapes means very little to me. In the final analysis if Gates hadn’t behaved like a belligerent asshole virtually from the moment he opened his door, this whole brouhaha would never have occurred, thus the overwhelming responsibility for the fact that it did happen lies with him.
IMHO, that is. 
Sorry, Phil. Too much hairsplitting. I gotta go.
Cite that Gates was belligerent?
Cite that being belligerent to the cops in one’s own home is illegal?
That pretty much IS what Gates said he did, but you have some of your facts wrong. He did not forhet his key, and he did not force the door to get in. He apparently had a jammed screen door (something that can happen when wood swells with humidity), went around the back to let himself in with the key, then was trying to get the door unstuck AFTER he was already in the house.
The arrest was stupid, but the reactions of the individual were a poor choice, too. I think both the President and Gen. Powell have the appropriate idea here.
