I reject the premise. A few months ago ,I started a thread because I was disappointed in what Obama accomplished. But since then the Health Care bill passed, (even though it was too weak), they are dealing with the Financial regulation , the Clean Energy program is on the slate and have stated the debit will be dealt with. No, he is not like Bush. It is very difficult to get anything done against the huge moneyed ,corporate interests. But he is trying to do something positive. Bush just piled up negatives and still managed a lot of vacation time.
The Conservatives won a plurality of the votes in each of the elections when Thatcher was the leader of the party. They also got a majority of the members of Parliament. That’s the definition of winning. If you don’t like that, demand that it be changed.
Wow, those goalposts shifted awful quick.
I have been accused here of lacking public spirit by voicing my disillusionment with our so-called govt of, by and for the people. The corporate infiltration and domination of all three branches of our govt is so complete and effective that over the past 120 years, the Union for which we sacrificed so much has become govt of, by and for corporations. It has been responsible for our wars and the creation a great consumer class, dependent for its life on the corporate tit and subject to its will. When was the last time you had anything to say about foreign and domestic policies? Why isn’t Goldman Sachs treated like a drug dealer who sold strychnine as heroin after taking out life insurance on it’s victims?
It is also clear to anyone who has managed to look beyond the media bred visions of democratic sugar-plums, that our corporate economy DEPENDS on an exponential increase in our demands for oil in the face of dwindling and finite supplies. And a lot of people just say, Oh, they’ll find something to replace it. Problem is, by the time alternatives become profitable to corporations, we will have lost valuable time in preparing our for our inevitable communal transition into Post Oil. In the meantime, it’s much more profitable to guzzle.
I consider myself public spirited in pointing this out.
I have also been credited here, ironically I assume, with the idea that I consider myself wiser than most. Now that I think about, yes I do, If what passes for thought these days is represented on Fox news or in the vast majority of the political posts on these boards. The issues endlessly seized upon here and lovingly debated are mere surface ripples on the corporate tsunami and are really beside the point.
Intelligence is found in every open mind and wisdom is the natural product of it’s exercise. I had the good fortune to drop out in '67, spend much of my life on the road living out of a backpack and didn’t own a tv until I retired on SS. I use the tv only to watch DVDs and will not get cable until they offer channels ala carte. Inadvertently, I have spared myself 40+ years of blow-by-blow sound bite recounting of our culture wars the corporate consolidated media presents as news and to which it limits debate. That’s my secret.
Really Not All That Bright, what are you talking about? I always was talking about what constitutes winning in British Parliamentary elections, which is winning a majority of elections for the members of Parliament. Talking about any other way of looking at the election is talking about a way of looking at it that has nothing to do with how the British elections work at present. If it’s not a good system, change it.
adhay, many of us agree with you about how terrible consumerism is. Don’t think that you’re the only one trying to fight it. Come visit me and see just how little I spend on anything. I think I can beat you on being anti-consumerist. Dropping out of society and not even attempting to change the political system doesn’t help anything though. Preserving your utter purity by not voting doesn’t mean that you want to change society. It means that you don’t care about what happens to anyone else.
Really? I thought the accusations were based on the fact that you voiced your intention to stop participating in the electoral process.
That was what it looked like, anyway.
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I make money so that I can spend it on the things I want and need. I don’t want them because the neighbors have them, but it may just be the case that they have the same interests as I do. Funny that people who live in the same area may have similar interests. I like living in a nice house and driving a reasonably new car. I have a passion for kitchen gadgets and tools for the shop.
I have no desire to not have money, or to squirrel it away and live the life of a monk. I’d guess most people are like that and not blind consumerists who frivolously spend their money on the latest TV advertised piece of crap.
adhay is an idiot if he thinks we’d be better off without companies or consumers buying things based upon what they want, not just what they need. Without that we’d have limited innovation and the lifestyles of those who spend the majority of their time standing in line at the equivalent of a Soviet supermarket for a measly course ground loaf of bread. But then some people like that and figure everyone would be better off if we all lived that way, I guess.
And yet we have adhay spending his money of frivolous things like a DVD player and media to play on it. Necessary? Not in the least. Maybe he displays his on an old B&W TV recycled from the dump while I play mine on a 43" LCD. Evil me. Frankly, he isn’t any different than the people he rails against except maybe in scale. He just doesn’t realize it. Nor does he realize that he can purchase a DVD at a cheap price because a hell of a lot of people buy them which forces competition between companies which keeps the price low and fosters innovation in the next model line so that a company can differentiate its product from the next one. And keeps people employed in development, manufacturing, distribution, and all the other things required to bring that DVD to his location and create the media content that he watches. All created by people who work for companies that he figures we’d be better off sticking it to.
Uzi, why the question mark? I didn’t say that everyone agrees with adhay. I said that some people do. I do my part to not be consumerist. Certainly a lot of people in the U.S. do wildly overspend. That’s part of why our economy is in such trouble. There are a lot of people who simply can’t live within their means, not because they have too little money to live simply on, but because they refuse to accept that they can’t continue spending far beyond the amount of money that have to spend.
In any case, I’m not going to argue the issue of consumerism and the American economy. That’s a separate thread. Start such a thread if you want to. This thread is about whether, even if you agree with adhay’s rant about the “Corporate Kleptocracy,” it’s worthwhile voting.
Which is not my point. And of course I’m as much a consumer as anyone.
What is “terrible” is that our corporate driven govt encourages increasing consumption for short term profit as a global way of life in the face of the planet’s dwindling ability to support it.
Well, at this point, it looks like society is trapped into maintaining a minimum level of consumerism, merely to keep the economy from collapsing.
I don’t think it’s indefinitely sustainable, but I also don’t know what’s the path to ease ourselves out of the cycle. I do agree that the folks who are presently deriving the largest benefits don’t seem to have displayed interest in finding that path.
Play all the word games you want but the fact remains the majority of the electorate did just what you said they should have done - voted against her.
If you don’t like being called on your loosely phrased posts then tighten up your language.
Thank you.
bolding mine
Again, thank you. And the reason for their disinterest is that govt is not making clear that it’s our only path to survival.
I do have some practical ideas on the subject of what a kind transition to Post Oil might look like. I’ll get back to you.
adhay writes:
> What is “terrible” is that our corporate driven govt encourages increasing
> consumption for short term profit as a global way of life in the face of the
> planet’s dwindling ability to support it.
That’s consumerism to me. Consumerism, as I see it, is both the government encouraging increased consumption when it makes no sense for our economy or our planet and individuals wildly overspending their budgets when they could live within their budget.
Since we’re on the subject of an open minds, what might one look like?
Pure speculation on my part posits that an open mind is distinguished by its ability to pull back a little on the zoom to the point where you can’t see the trees for the forest.
Wisdom represents the wider picture. This planet is “socialist” by nature and is quite limited in its ability accommodate unlimited greed. Get used to it.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=16 GE has been involved in cheating and defrauding the US Government . They are a major contractor for the military.
Columbia Journalism Review From " who owns what". These are the TV and news outlets that GE owns. Is it not strange that you don’t get stories about corporate crooks? The corporations are in charge of the messages you receive. The takeover in almost complete.
Please don’t confuse the issue with facts. Oh, WTF, go ahead.
The world if based upon one creature eating another to survive. We, as in people, like to think we somehow different from that reality.
The planet has essentially unlimited resources for whatever we need. It just depends on how much we are willing to pay for that need. You listen too much to the chicken littles of the world.
Now that doesn’t mean that we should breed like cockroaches as it takes time and technology to access those resources and the environmental impact of utilizing some of them may be too much for our current technology to cope with.