I only have one question.
What government of Palestine ought the UN acknowledge as legitimate?
All three of them will be secular, Western leaning, and democratic. Syria will be among them. This will come to pass within two years. They will be minimally friendly with Israel.
It’s going to happen and our policy should be ready to take advantage of the postArab Spring Middle East. It won’t be but it should be.
And when that doesn’t happen, I bet you’ll blame Israel.
I’d blame them when I think about it cause they’re free and shit. Yet, whenever I talk about it, to fit in with the “everyone is against us” snifflefest, I will blame Israel. Just so you don’t have to question your own prejudices or anything.
That wasn’t a “snifflefest”, that was cynical amusement. Or possibly amused cynicism - I’m not sure.
Crap I read that wrong, I’m all ready to fight tonight.
More good stuff -
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/obamas-mideast-speech-draws-raves-rants/article2175636/
How do you call a man who when told to “Jump!” does not even ask “How high?” but goes on to break all previously set records?
Ah, I see. Obama isn’t doing what he does because he disagrees with you, as no rational human being can disagree with you; instead, he’s doing it because he’s weak. Have I got it?
Will Israel be to blame? Serious question.
Whichever one holds the West Bank.
I repeat. I mean, you’re talking about “land swaps.” The Gaza Strip is nothing to nobody including its own residents, but the West Bank is Judea and Samaria, the heartland of historic Israel, and a lot of Israelis actually seem to think of it that way. Isn’t it obvious by now that the Israelis won’t evacuate a single settlement on the WB until the Palestinians are negotiating from a somewhat stronger position?
Can anybody?
No, Sue’s to Blane–didn’t you ever go to RHPS?
See post #13.
A UN declaration does not make Palestine “become” a nation. It is supposed to be “recognition” that Palestine is a nation.
How can Palestine be “recognized” as a nation if it lacks a coherent government, and doesn’t control its own territory? If the “government” that was actually democratically elected (Hamas, not the PLO) rules part of the proto-“Nation” (Gaza) and is against recognition?
The case against UN recognition is that there exists, as of now, no “nation” that is currently capable of being recognized. In short, it is putting the ‘cart’ of UN recognition before the ‘horse’ of having a united government capable of controlling its own territory - in short, a nation.
So, lemmie get this straight - we are going to support the democratic principles of the “Arab Spring” by supporting as legitimate and recognizing as the government whoever “holds the West Bank”, even if as in this case they happen to be the losers of the last democratic election the Palestinians had?
I’d be delighted if that happened. Chances of it happening, I’d put at less than 5%.
But that’s not true.
http://www.euronews.net/2011/09/21/hamas-wants-palestinian-reconciliation-before-un-recognition/
Hamas position just happened to be more nuanced for sensitive ears of US public.
It’s actually quite interesting…
In one hand, Abbas SHOULD have done what is being made explicit from this interview – Palestinian unity and single voice BEFORE going to UN. That would, in fact, do away with all those who point that divisions are deep between Gaza and WB.
On the other hand, if Abbas did come with a single voice representing all Palestinians fractions including Hamas, the whole deal would be dead on arrival exactly because it includes Hamas.
Detractors would construe former as “Abbas does not represent all of Palestine” and the latter as “Abbas represents terrorists”.
Abbas can’t win either way. Lesser men would scream their lungs out and pull their hair in desperation.
However, to make some progress and to show to Palestinians that Abbas and his secular movement is the way to go, UN should, at the very least, give him something. Something that he can take back and come back as winner.
It seems to me that both Israel and US are hell bent on improving Hamas chances of becoming a single dominant force by publicly shaming Abbas. And my cynical view tells me it is all by design.
Of course not.
How can a small country like Israel prevent or assist the rise of democracy in a nation over ten times its size like Egypt? You overestimate our power. The Egyptians are grownups - whether or not they choose to become a free, democratic nation, it will be purely their own choice.
Your link doesn’t work for me.
However, I agree with this bit of your summary:
Exactly my point.
On this issue, assuming your summary is accurate, Hamas is ironically enough taking the more sensible position. The PLO is putting cart before horse, and no good can come of that.
I got that much.
Tell me then, what’s your take on the other one where, in fact, Abbas does come in agreement with Hamas? What would you say then? How would goal posts move in that case?