Very much so.
No more JAQing off. If you wish to make an argument, now is the time to do so. If you ask a question, then also address it yourself.
If a mindless rant is what you want, I can move this to the Pit.
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Obamacare has had, frankly, a stunning level of success.
Let us recall that this is a HUGE piece of legislation. Not just in total size of the text, but that it impacts nearly 20% of the country’s GDP. This type of legislation isn’t the sort of thing you put down on paper and walk away for the next 8 years.
It needs to be managed, you need to see where things go right and things go wrong and make the necessary changes so it operates smoothly. You don’t need to do this because the legislation was faulty, you need to do this because it was written by human beings, not gods.
Obamacare had NONE of that. Soon after it was passed the House turned Republican and that house of Congress actively sought Obamacare’s destruction, casting dozens upon dozens of votes to fully or partially dismantle the ACA. Forget about passing legislation to fix anything that went wrong with it.
So, this legislation which absolutely required active management, was continuously attacked and undermined by the legislature, yet it STILL remains, despite its most rabid opponents holding all three parts of government required to eliminate it.
The only thing scandalous about it was the GOP’s craven attacks, failure to manage, and failure to repeal and replace.
Well there was certainly an effort to cripple his administration and bastardize his name and anything they could attach his name to which began with a meeting in the eve of his inauguration, as we all know and recall. Have you seen what followed him into that office? You know, every time I see images of Obama and Don juxtaposed, I’m reminded that the corrupt dishonest half-stepping pig with a slew of spawn from 3 different babymommas is the fatass greasy white guy.
Let me be more clear. Since House and Senate voted on the same bill, that version of ACA, at least, was always going to become law. The GOP had the option to entertain amendments to improve the bill; each passable by the majority party or — assuminbg Moscow Mitch chose to play hardball — if there was one (1) Republican Senator willing to vote for the proposed improvement.
`Moscow’ Mitch McConnell did not allow this. The intent was to deliberately retain ACA defects, hoping that its flaws would annoy the public, and thereby make Obama a one-term President.
Reread that last sentence, please, those of you who claim not to understand how heinous the modern-day Republican Party has become.
That’s a good summary of the political situation. Any bill that does as much as the ACA, historically, has needed a refresh/fix/update to fix unforeseen problems and make it better and more efficient. This bill never had any of that, due to Republican opposition.
Don’t you remember the farce about repeal of ACA? Don and his fellow travelers couldn’t come up with anything remotely plausible. They talked about it, just not rationally.
These two replies are so much in conflict that I’d love to get some clarification. puddleglum, you have the floor – care to defend your statement or refute DSeid’s? Because from here, your post looks (maybe) technically true but misleading to the point of false.
Obama also expanded SCHIP by 4 million children, so expansion of health insurance under Obama was the greatest since LBJ who created medicare and medicaid.
Dseid mentioned how the uninsured rate dropped 7% from 18% down to 11%. Thats about 20-25 million people gaining coverage under the Obama years.
Having said that, I don’t know if I’d call the ACA a stunning success. One problem with the ACA is that it acts like a band aid and may make people think our health system is better than it really is. We still pay twice as much as any other developed nation for health care and other than people on public plans or with amazing private coverage, most people don’t ‘really’ know if they have health insurance. In between deductibles, copays, balance billing, exclusions, denials, out of network charges, etc. you have no idea if you go into a hospital if your bill will be $10 or 10 thousand when all is said and done.
Also underinsurance is still a gigantic issue in teh US. A lot of politicians seem to want to say as long as you have insurance you’re fine. Even if that insurance costs you $800 a month, has a $6000 deductible and will find ways to avoid paying the bills when you actually need it, they want to say insurance = health care when the two are totally different things.
Also pretty much everything that would’ve actually bent the US health care costs curve was taken out. A public option, allowing reimportation of pharmaceuticals, public negotiation of medical supplies and drugs, etc. these were all taken out of the ACA. Other things like encouraging visits to overseas providers for expensive care (expensive surgery or long term care) that would’ve also reduced costs were’nt included. The reality is the democrats didn’t want to offend the health care industry so anything that would have actually worked to reduce the cost curve was taken out, since reducing the cost curve cuts into the business model of a multi trillion dollar a year industry. Our health care system is still bankrupting federal government, state government, private industry and citizens all at the same time because politicians on both the state and federal level refuse to enact reforms that will actually reduce costs, since the only truly effective reforms will be opposed tooth and nail by pharma, medical device manufactures, hospitals, medical labor groups, health insurance companies etc. as genuine reform will cut into their business model and profits.
So there were massive failures in the ACA, and sadly for a lot of people one of the best things we can say is ‘well it was better than nothing’.
Also, even though the texas judge who overturned it will hopefully be overruled, he may not and the entire law may go down.
Below is a link to the census data from 2018 (just released in Sept 2019) on uninsured rate. Page 17 has 2008 through 2018. In 2008, just prior to the economic collapse, the uninsured rate was just over 14%, and stayed between 14-16% until 2014, when the exchanges kicked in. It’s now 8.5%, according to the census. This is because of the ACA. I would note that the uninsured rate is 6.6% in states that expanded Medicaid, and over 12% in states that did not expand Medicaid.
Depends.
If you are poor, it was “ok”. You were able to get “insurance” but we’re still unable to pay the deductibles and out of pocket expenses because you are poor.
If you are rich, it sucked, but you are rich so you can still pay.
If you are middle class? You got fucked. Hard.
“Obamacare” barely ever made it over 50% “approval” since its passing. The fact of the matter is that most people didn’t like it. If you had insurance before, you most likely have a more expensive version of insurance now with an insultingly low coverage threshold.
“Obamacare” was just another fuckup by the left that contributed to Trump.
Screw it, you guys. You think Obamacare sucks so bad? Fine, let’s repeal it. Set the clock right back to 2008, where you couldn’t get coverage if you had any of a multitude of preexisting conditions, where the fine print in your insurance policy pointed out you had a $1,000,000 lifetime maximum cap on your benefits, and your insurance company had the absolute right to cancel your policy, period, full stop. Then you try to build anything better with Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell guiding the ship of state.
Listen, and repeat after me. “The perfect is the enemy of the good.”
Obamacare was so bad.
*How bad was it?
*It was so bad that Republicans made sure to repeal it and replace it as soon as they had the votes!
(The above sentiment brought to you by fantasyland, the only place that the above actually happened.)
Obama & Co could have just simply mandated/passed legislation that stopped monetary lifetime caps and ended preexisting condition exclusions and no one significant would have had a reason to complain.
Depends.
If you are poor but not so poor that you already were on Medicaid then the expansion of Medicaid helped you out tons.
If you are a bit less poor to lower middle class and on a subsidized exchange product you went from uninsured to now having catastrophic care coverage and a host of preventative care services at no out of pocket expense. Other illness related expenses can hurt your pocketbook very significantly before the deductible kicks in though. Not to bankrupt level like before but still. Not ideal but better than having been uninsured by a long shot.
If you are more solidly middle class, likely same employer provided plan you otherwise would have had. Which most are okay with.
If you are rich? You pay some more in taxes but likely same plan you otherwise would have had.
Compared to what was and what otherwise would have been the ACA is a stunning success.
Compared to what it could have accomplished if the party of no cared more about the people of this country, including those who voted for them, than trying to make Obama look bad? Only fair.
Compared to what it could accomplish if built upon, inclusive of a public option? Only fair.
Compared to MfA, pretty good, because it is real.
No one except poor people, who couldn’t have afforded the premiums.
But you did say “no one significant.”
Wow. I just went through many of the threads you’ve started and they’re all like this; asking a loaded question but never actually expressing an opinion of your own.
I think it’s fair to say he *is * expressing an opinion with his “questions”.
BS. I lived and worked in a state with a legislature that hated Obama on principle (the principle being he was a Democrat, highly intelligent, and Black) and refused to expand Medicaid coverage. I had to retire but could never have afforded health insurance. I moved here to Washington state in 2016 and was able to get affordable insurance on the exchange.
Was it terrific? No. But neither was insurance under my old employer. Ending monetary lifetime caps and pre-existing condition denials would have helped, but I STILL wouldn’t have been able to afford coverage.
And I am significant.
Unless you were one of the people who now qualified for Medicaid, and were lucky enough to live in a state whose Republican rulers would rather see you die or go bankrupt than expand it.
Rich people have traditional insurance, and see no difference.
Bullshit. I had coverage from my employer, and never saw a difference, except that I didn’t have to worry that our pre-existing conditions would have disqualified us from coverage if I lost my job and COBRA ran out.
In healthcare threads pre-ACA I looked at some of insurance people were stuck buying. Massive cost, massive deductibles, and only a small range of cases where you didn’t get screwed. It wasn’t exactly sweetness and light for the middle class then.
Or do you think the middle class liked going bankrupt?
When I retired I looked at what was available. Not great, COBRA was better, but a lot better than the stuff I saw pre-ACA. And they’d write me insurance.
Got something better? Your suggestion isn’t. Yeah, Republicans are great at lying about how they had a better idea. They couldn’t come up with one. Trump lied about his great plan, didn’t he?
We do have a great healthcare plan in the US. It’s Medicare. I’m on it and it rocks. Even better than my old high end employer partially paid insurance. Got something better? Let’s hear it.