I don’t blame you at all, but would you consider doing so for other people? Troppus clearly has other issues which are clouding the discussion. She’s vehemently claims she’s right and refuses to consider that she isn’t…I’ve seen other things she’s psoted that make me wonder if she has her own body image problems and deals with them by lashing out at obese people. I told my story in a calm, honest manner and discussed how I was educating myself. I don’t share a lot of myself here and that took a lot. She called my post histrionics. From now on, she and her issues don’t exist for me, but like I said when I was engaged in hysterics :rolleyes:, I’d really like to help others, if with nothing more than information.
I’ve learned a lot from you, brazil 84, artemis, Malthus and stoid (I gather there’s a history to which I’m not privy, but she posted some food for thought for me). I’d really like to hear your story, colander, but certainly I understand if you don’t want to tell it. Hostile environment and all.
Helena330, I did not intend to refer to your posts as histrionics, I meant to point to the claims of starvation/impossible/irreversible, etc. Your input and experience seems very balanced and reasonable and it appears you sought medical input in order to reverse the weight gain caused by your allergy meds. Your posts, along with Malthus and others who relayed how they changed bad habits are practical, solid advice. As this thread has moved well beyond the original discussion, I’ll leave you to it. Please accept my apology for including your quote in my histrionics remark.
It would be interesting to know if there is a correlation between BMI and beliefs about the effectiveness of dieting.
I don’t know about Troppus, but I do think that there is a tendency among some skinnies to beat up on fatties or even on chubbies. You can see a lot of this on the web site skinnygossip.com.
I would guess a lot of this is because these skinnies (and they are usually girls) are terrified of their inner fatty.
Probably a similar correlation to victimhood and BMI on the other end of the spectrum. I’d like to hear from anyone in this thread who feels bullied because I object to the claims of starvation and the attempts to compare extreme diet experiments to at-home calorie cutting.
Honestly, I think what I’ve posted in this thread pretty much encapsulates any lessons that anyone can learn from my story. I’m well past the point of thinking I have any world-changing secret knowledge to share. Come to think of it, I have found that it is generally good practice to avoid those who think they do.
Ah, I don’t think the tendency to dump on fats is limited to people with low BMI. You see it from people of all sizes, surprisingly enough. I agree with you that it always seems to stem from a not-very-well-hidden terror of becoming fatter, though. People who don’t spend time obsessing over such things don’t seem to be in such a hurry to disparage those who struggle.
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Ah, I don’t think the tendency to dump on fats is limited to people with low BMI. You see it from people of all sizes, surprisingly enough. I agree with you that it always seems to stem from a not-very-well-hidden terror of becoming fatter, though. People who don’t spend time obsessing over such things don’t seem to be in such a hurry to disparage those who struggle.
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You know I always see these “insights” and they are always “they probably jealous” or “they probably insecure” but I am not sure these are the only motives possible for harsh criticism.
I concede that it is entirely possible that many of them have some other reason for behaving the way they do. But in my experience, there is a definite correlation.
Internet certainly helps with that. Compare the prevalence of mean-spirited chub-daggering on discussion boards dedicated to bodybuilding and women’s fashion to the prevalence of same on forums devoted to, say, macrame or scuba-diving. You may notice trends!
Is it “dumping on fat people” to want acknowledgement that my ability to maintain a healthy weight is due to making a conscious and often unpleasant effort to moderate my food intake, be active, and avoid unhealthy habits? I don’t care what anyone weighs, I just want to stop hearing that I won the lottery when in reality I work every day of my life.
Maybe I missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone here say that maintaining a normal weight is always effortless or fun for people who have never been obese. I’m sure it sometimes sucks a lot, and if someone tells you that they bet it doesn’t, I give you my official permission to tell them to go pound sand.
…but when people explain some of the factors that make it significantly more difficult for someone who has been significantly overweight for a significant fraction of their life to reach and maintain the weight/height ratio that you are at, I don’t think it makes a whole lot of sense to get upset at those explanations.
The fact of the matter is that although I guess there’s not much good in thinking about it, you kind of did win a lottery. Everyone posting on this message board has won many lotteries. For instance, I am pretty sure we also both won the “born white in America” lottery. I know I won the “neither of my parents are alcoholics or child molesters” lottery, and if you did, too, I think you’ll agree with me that it’s pretty sweet. I lost the “born into a household with parents who exhibit healthy eating and activity patterns” lottery, and yeah, that does kind of end up meaning that I have to work harder to maintain a healthy weight than people who didn’t lose that lottery. It is harder in ways that honestly they are going to have a tough time appreciating, and is really gross to see people advocating the deliberate exclusion of fat children from what could be a fun physical and social activity as if they were doing him some kind of useful motivational favor. That is some backwards shit.
And how anyone can watch that and go on arguing against the idea that it really is a whole different ballgame for the obese and formerly obese is completely beyond me.
The original MPSIMS thread which is much better and explains much more. But it’s also insanely long. Although the OP is itself informative.
It’s incomplete to state that it is a whole different ballgame for the obese and formerly obese – it was a whole different ballgame for the previously obese too. Studies like the one in the video cannot separate out what metabolic effects are due to gaining and losing weight and what are inherent in people who become obese. But there are almost certainly important differences between a person who will end up obese and a person who will not.
Studies like the one in the video cannot assess whether there is less disruption among people who engage in a mild, sane diet and stick to it for a long period of time.
The phrase “whole different ballgame” is ambiguous. I doubt even Troppus disputes that dieters, even over the long term, will always feel an internal pull towards pigging out on unhealthy foods. The question is how strong that internal pull is.
I figured out how to deal with this somewhat. I mentioned myfitnesspal.com earlier. It basically keeps track of daily calories and recommends what a person should be eating based on their goals and lifestyle. One thing it also does is counts calories burned during exercise, then adds them to the daily allowed calorie intake. I think they over-estimate some of the calories burned, but overall for me it’s been fairly accurate, especially when I was losing weight. Anyway, I’ve decided that when I’m having cravings for something, if I work in the yard for three hours, I can splurge on 500-600 calories of it. It really helps to see the numbers visually. And our yard’s looking REALLY good.
I took a low personal blow at troppus upthread and I feel badly about it. My apologies, troppus.
Nearly every addiction feels this way, doesn’t it? We hear people say “I love the smell of cigarette smoke but I’m always reminded that I no longer cough every morning and my clothes and house no longer stink”. And I’ve heard a lot of recovering alcoholics carry on ad nauseum about how horrible they used to be, and how much happier they are now. Isn’t it the same for recovering over eaters? Don’t they, or shouldn’t they dwell on how much more mobile, active, and comfortable they are now? Why isn’t chronic overeating treated like an addiction every single time?
My friend Nathan was enormous but after successfully completing that foolish HCG diet he is training for a marathon and devotes the same time and energy to running and exercising that he did food, and has a whole new life and new set of friends. At least in his case it is possible to focus on another outlet. He still eats pizza and drinks beer with me, but he knows how far he has to run to burn it off. He, like other recovering addictive personalities, seems to have replaced his old addiction with a new habit. Sounds like Helena330 found the same style of managing her health (although hers sounds far healthier. The HCG diet is just awful.)
Thank you, Helena330, but it doesn’t bother me. Like everyone else on here, I’ve shared some personal details but kept most to myself, and it’s natural to make assumptions and paint a picture of what little we know about each other here. It’s not relevant to the thread, but my back was broken in a wreck years ago and I discovered while I was pregnant that I can’t carry more than 30 or so extra pounds without ruining my balance or putting a painful strain on an already ruined spine. So that’s my main motivator: each time I have a bad back day I remember that I have to watch what I eat unless I want to suffer. As far as body image issues, once I realized years ago that everyone has a “type” and there’s no point in driving yourself crazy trying to be conventionally beautiful because no matter how tall, fit, and thin a model is, she’s had a crush on a guy who likes ‘em short and round. Some days I am disappointed with what I see in the mirror, but I’m long past caring what others think of my shape so I’m pretty sure body image issues are behind me.
As far the cravings that even sven mentioned earlier, I totally get the always hungry feeling as I’m constantly thinking about my next meal, cooking for my family, and the grocery store. Food and the pleasure of growing it, preparing it, shopping for eat and eating it are a big part of my life. But I don’t suffer or feel anxiety about eating and I happen to love vegetables and fruit and I’m not a big fan of doughnuts, fries, and other greasy, starchy food. On top of that, I hate feeling overfull. You know, not the “I ate too much popcorn” full, but that nauseated, button popping full when you attempt to get your money’s worth at a buffet. So I guess I’m lucky there, my cravings are mostly for healthier fare, and I tend to stop eating before I blow up like Violet Beauregard. I can easily say “I feel like shit after I eat a greasy bag of fast food” but it’s pretty apparent that many people feel just fine after eating the exact same thing. So why don’t other people feel like shit, lethargic, salt and grease-bloated and nappish after eating that stuff? How does anyone ever get the yard mowed and the house cleaned after eating a meal at Long John’s? I have to sleep that mess off.
If we ever get back to talking about the kids from the OP, I would be interested to hear what motivators could be used to encourage better habits. If it’s not “Look at all these fun things you could do if you lost a few pounds” then what? This is something I’ll be dealing with as a parent sooner rather than later as my husband’s family has several members which equate junk food with love and all of the kids are overweight, and my 14 month old is fed a pretty continuous stream of cookies when she visits because that’s how they encourage my kid to “like” them. If someone reading this thread has some ideas about how to address that without insulting my in-laws or making my child feel weird about food, I’d be very interested.
Troppus, I think that’s why people talk about ‘health’ a lot. I tell my kids certain foods aren’t healthy, and it’s not good for them to eat too much of them. Setting boundaries with your in-laws is always tricky, though.
Fortunately I have not had nearly every addiction so I do not know. But I would guess you are right to a large extent on this point.
Probably they should but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s very challenging for formerly fat people to stay thin.
I don’t know; I do think that food addiction plays an important role in obesity perhaps even the primary role but I don’t think it’s the whole story. If you consume alcohol or smoke a cigarette, you may be harming yourself but at least you know what you are doing. Of course the same is true a lot of the time with food, for example if you pig out on french fries or ice cream. But sometimes with food people over-consume without conscious awareness of it.
With food, the body has an internal system which regulates how much you desire to eat. It seems likely that with obese people, that internal system is out of whack. And that seems to be part of the problem.