Ok, let’s see if I understand you correctly:
You dispute my claim that part of the reason people get fat is addiction to certain foods.
You believe that this claim is contradicted by the observation that obesity rates are higher in the United States than in most other developed countries.
Do I understand you correctly?
Absolutely, if by “people” you mean “some people”; by “pills” you mean stuff like vicodine; and by “assume” you mean “infer on the basis of observation and critical thought.”
I agree.
I agree.
For the most part I agree.
No, but seeing as the majority of Americans are clinically overweight or obese I would have to guess that the majority of that market is for chubby people.
That may very well be the case but it does not contradict my claim. I am not saying that eating pattern 1 works for a majority of people; just that it works for “a lot” of people.
I would also add that people surely vary in the amount of conscious effort they need to avoid overeating.
Yes, as I’ve seen zero evidence that a chronic overeater will suffer a withdrawal reaction if Popeye’s chicken goes out of business, or will drive for hours to buy doughnuts, or is willing to eat pure sugar, a tub of lard, or any of the components of a favorite food separately. People over eat because they like the flavor of a food, not because they are driven to match a set of receptors in the brain which only matches a specific ingredient/s.
I don’t know what you think your claims have to do with US obesity rates, as far as I can tell the only bearing the US stats have in this discussion is that there seems to be an air of permissiveness towards overindulgnce here and a tendency towards victim culture with regards to obesity which leads people to defend fat by searching for conspiracies to explain their appetites.
Which is different from your initial claim that they require no mental exertion to do so. You keep claiming that people of healthy dimensions have it easy, that they require no effort to stay healthy and that stopping before they over indulge is instinctive for them. These claims are either guesses or wishful thinking. Were your claims true, morbidly obese people could continue to claim “I am somehow different from you therefore I must have some disease or broken switch or valve.”
That’s pretty much a strawman, since “certain foods” need not be so specific. I doubt anyone is addicted to steamed broccoli. Perhaps I should have said “certain types of foods” – that’s what I meant anyway.
I think they have very little to do with the distinction between obesity rates in the US and in other developed countries.
You are the one who brought it up as being somehow relevant to disproving my point. I take it you now admit that it does not contradict my point at all?
Who do you mean by “they”?
Please show me where I made such a claim. Please quote me. Failing that, please admit I said no such thing and apologize.
Okay, first off, I’m not playing some intense game of “gotcha” here. This is an informal conversation composed primarily of opinions and observations with a few cites sprinkled in to back up each of our own personal biases. If you say something that is unclear or seems contradictory to my POV, I’m going to ask you to restate or clarify, or attempt to interpret your words based on prior context. When I misunderstand you, correct me, but don’t demand an apology as though you’ve been perfectly consistent and clear throughout this discussion. It’s all over the place, just like all discussions about polarizing topics.
And that’s fine. I’m not going to pin you down to specifics just to yank your chain; but I’ll probably ask for clarification from time to time, as that’s how conversation works. And yeah, steamed broccoli. The earlier claim that chronic over-eaters “never feel full” is completely debunked by steamed broccoli and gallons of soda. Yes, I read the sensory specific satiety discussion, but that’s a matter of want, not need.
Right here:
See?
I’m not quite sure what your point is, other than you seem to labor under the assumption that thin people are somehow exempt from the external forces that compel obese people to over eat. You have no evidence to back up this claim, but there is plenty of evidence that people who maintain a healthy weight do so out of sheer will and attention to diet and exercise.
I brought up the US obesity rates as a counter to the claim that there is some mysterious, unifying physical disease or disorder that is “causing” morbid obesity. It isn’t the “certain types of food” as you claimed, or we would all be fat. 40% of us aren’t. Morbid obesity in the US crosses boundaries of ethnicity, culture, and socio-economic group. There is no singular underlying gene, switch, germ, addictive food or hormone that this can be pinned on. Obesity isn’t a heritable metabolic disorder like Tay-Sachs as it crossed ethnic boundaries. It isn’t a contagious disease like the flu. It isn’t “caused” by delicious foods or we’d all be fat. It isn’t limited to a particular culture or socio-economic group. Except in extreme cases like Prader-Willi or appetite increasing medications, morbid obesity is in this respect, no different from alcoholism or drug addiction. The dependence on food begins with overindulgence; none of you have yet to prove that any of us are born with an addiction to food.
Then you should read my posts carefully and respond to what I actually say as opposed to what you wish or imagine I said.
No I don’t. Stating that a lot of people engage in intuitive eating and stay thin is NOT the same as stating that ALL thin people belong to this category.
Sorry, but I am interested in engaging with someone who insists on misstating my position.
This exchange is concluded. Goodbye.
I quoted you directly. What you said is not in question, if you meant something else you are free to elaborate or not. You have done nothing to back your claims that certain foods are addictive, that evolution left a blind spot with regards to the regulation of appetites, and that “a lot of people eat intuitively with no mental exertion” to maintain a healthy weight.
If your claims are merely observations and opinions, that’s fine but a dead end for the conversation with our without the constant misunderstandings. But the fact that some 40% of people living, working, and eating in the same environment aren’t obese disproves your claims that evolution short-changed the chronic over eaters, disprove your claims that certain foods are addictive since we all have access to the same diet, and your claims that persons of a healthy weight simply don’t require any effort to maintain that weight are at best: a guess and at worst a myth. Maintaining a healthy weight requires work and deliberate, conscious effort.
I definitely agree that any assumption that people of healthy dimensions have it easy is a flawed assumption. There are a boatload of people working hard to maintain their level of fitness/weight.
As a person of healthy dimensions, I will hazard that most morbidly obese persons are different from me in their general activity level. I put a modicum of effort into watching my diet. I put a lot of “effort” into weekly activities. Effort is in quotes because I am fortunate enough to have found several pastimes that have a high activity level and I find exceptionally enjoyable.
Me too, couple of high energy hobbies as well as a big garden and yard that require some dedication to maintain. It may be a personal blood sugar issue, but if I eat junk food before attempting to exercise, play, or do hard yard work, I’m too sluggish and unmotivated to do anything. I like processed food, sugar, fast food and other empty calories just fine, but if I plan to get anything accomplished I know I have to eat a lean high protein meal first. No chance I could scarf a bag of cookies or typical Long Johns platter and feel healthy and strong. If ate fast food and candy for every meal I’d have an endless headache and never get off the couch. I can’t prove anything based on personal experience alone, but I’d wager that the quality of food in somehow correlates with the quality of energy and motivation out.
You may notice trends but you are then interpreting them in a biased way. People who are in to body building or fashion could be simply more disgusted by fat people, which is just as likely as they are afraid of becoming fat. I remain unimpressed with your mind reading abilities.
Just because 40% can do something, that doesn’t say anything about the 60% who can’t.
I think overweight people tend to think it is easier for normal weight people because they too (the overweight people) are trying really hard to lose weight, but it doesn’t seem to work for them. Maybe they are trying the wrong things, or maybe their effort is high enough but not consistent enough, or maybe it is actually harder for them I don’t know. Sure there are overweight people who have never dieted and do just sit on the couch all day eating Doritos, but a lot of overweight people have worked very hard to lose weight, at least as hard as you and sven worked. But you were successful, and they weren’t. There must be some difference between you. A lot of overweight people are very successful in other areas of their lives, so it’s not just that they are lazy, undisciplined slobs either.
Probably more research needs to be done about the differences among (1) people who are naturally thin; (2) people who maintain their thinness with effort; and (3) fat people.