#OccupyWallStreet

[Zeriel]

@Scylla

:smack:

That’s what they were doing… That you were complaining about… And calling war.

You’re not the brightest light in the autumn sky, are you?

Naw, I’m just saying they’re doing it wrong. Dipshit.

Here’s the plain and simple fact.

The financial industry knows exactly what it can do to reduce the amount of public anger: stop believing they should be 30% of the economy, stop taking stupid risks with the money and the public trust on stupid, idiotic securities.

The 1% in general knows exactly what it can do to reduce the amount of public anger: cut back their rate of growth relative to the rest of us, so that there is measurable progress towards less income inequality, and similarly cut back on their use their money to buy political influence.

Neither of those things mean “give up the gold-plated Ferrari.” But they do mean “have some consideration of the fact that there are 99 of us for every one of you, and you ultimately exist at our sufferance.” I don’t think we’re really THAT close to the “armed insurrection” line, but if I were a millionaire, I’d settle for being an 800,000-aire if it meant backing away enough that it wasn’t even under discussion.

Admittedly, a lot of the problem is with business culture in general. Every time I hear a guy with an MBA say something about “stockholders expect X% growth, and that’s totally what we should shoot for!” where X > 5% above inflation, I want to punch them until they stop moving.

[BigT]

@Scylla

I honestly could not guess why. I mean, here is this group that is attacking this other group politically, and the other group is trying to make a plan to defend themselves.

What am I missing? What is damning here?

The fact that they are fighting back means they think OWS is a threat. This contradicts everyone who said that OWS is not working. It’s the same reason the mass coordinated evictions in multiple cities are a good sign.

It’s so fucking annoying how many people treat OWS like they’re just a bunch of idiots who don’t amount to anything.

[Scylla]

@Zeriel

Naw, I’m just saying they’re doing it wrong. Dipshit.

No that’s not what you said. When shown evidence that they had gotten PR people, you called it war and thought they should get pr people.

Here’s the plain and simple fact.

The financial industry knows exactly what it can do to reduce the amount of public anger: stop believing they should be 30% of the economy, stop taking stupid risks with the money and the public trust on stupid, idiotic securities.

The wealth generated by the Financial services industry was 828 billion in 2009, about 6% of GDP, so I don’t know where you come up with this idea they think they should be 30. Here’s a task for you. You tell me right now what securities we will be calling stupid and idiotic a few years from now. Ok? Because, you know, that is the trick.

The 1% in general knows exactly what it can do to reduce the amount of public anger: cut back their rate of growth relative to the rest of us, so that there is measurable progress towards less income inequality, and similarly cut back on their use their money to buy political influence.

Again, it’s difficult to communicate with somebody who is as willfully stupid as you. First off, why should they make less money just because you are too stupid to do well for yourself and their relative success pisses you off? Secondly, I think they have the right to spend their money as they see fit. Why shouldn’t they use it to get further a political agenda that is important to them?

As stupid as your argument is, there is more than a germ here worth discussing. I think that is executive compensation. Public companies need to be run for the shareholders not for the executives, and executive comp has spiraled out of control.

Neither of those things mean “give up the gold-plated Ferrari.” But they do mean “have some consideration of the fact that there are 99 of us for every one of you, and you ultimately exist at our sufferance.” I don’t think we’re really THAT close to the “armed insurrection” line, but if I were a millionaire, I’d settle for being an 800,000-aire if it meant backing away enough that it wasn’t even under discussion.

This is pretty offensive. Ignorant, too. History would indicate that a small power elite with the lawyers guns and money versus a big mob just means that lots and lots of people die.

Admittedly, a lot of the problem is with business culture in general. Every time I hear a guy with an MBA say something about “stockholders expect X% growth, and that’s totally what we should shoot for!” where X > 5% above inflation, I want to punch them until they stop moving.

Seriously, do you have any business training at all? Do you have even the vaguest clue how ignorant you are? This isn’t politics here, it’s math.

Comparing a growth rate of a business to inflation is utterly moronic.

Let’s say we start Scylla’s Widgets corp, and in its first year of business we sell 10,000 worth of widgets. The next year our base expands and we sell 100k worth. We’ve grown by 1000%

We’re a small startup and we are doing well. What’s the problem?

Companies like Dell and walmart grew in the double digits sustainably for decades.

There’s a lot of factors that go into determining what a reasonable growth rate for a company should be. Inflation is a particularly nonsensical one. Why would that have anything to do with it?

How about a company’s current market versus it’s potential market? Do you think that might be a better measure? How about if we track that against the cost of expansion and a company’s margins versus cost of capital?

How about competition? Shall we consider that if a company doesn’t expand fast enough to meet demand a competitor can come in and steal their market?

I can think of a dozen other factors.

But no. Idiot tech boy thinks co’s should grow no faster than 5% above inflation or else they are evil.

I think it is irresponsible and wrong of you to allow yourself to be this fucking ignorant.

[Scylla]

@BigT

The fact that they are fighting back means they think OWS is a threat. This contradicts everyone who said that OWS is not working. It’s the same reason the mass coordinated evictions in multiple cities are a good sign.

It’s so fucking annoying how many people treat OWS like they’re just a bunch of idiots who don’t amount to anything.

Stupidity and ignorance are always threats.

[elucidator]

@Scylla

…Again, it’s difficult to communicate with somebody who is as willfully stupid as you. First off, why should they make less money just because you are too stupid to do well for yourself and their relative success pisses you off? Secondly, I think they have the right to spend their money as they see fit. Why shouldn’t they use it to get further a political agenda that is important to them?..

Scylla in a nutshell. So to speak. First, of course, anyone who insists on disagreeing with you after you have communicated the Gospel must be stupid. And, of course, no sensible person of good will has any doubts about the wonders of our system, if they criticize, it can only be envy.

Did Tom Paine write *Common Sense *because he so desperately envied the English? The struggles of the labor movement, all about envy and jealousy? They had no right to resent the people who gave them the opportunity to breathe the refreshing coal dust, and look forward to the day when they could send their children down those same black roads?

But the money quote is that last bit, another sterling example of the batting of big brown innocent eyes. You already know whats wrong with that. So long as the man with money has more political power, more civil rights and privileges, then ours is a cash and carry government. Democracy doesn’t enter into it, save for annoying rituals like elections, which cannot be controlled quite adequately, but they are working on it.

Either of the Koch Brothers has ten thousand times the political power I have. I dont give a rats if they wipe their asses with thin gold foil, I give a rat’s that they have an appalling environmental record and a determination to bend the political system to their will. Presumably, so they won’t even be annoyed by having to hire lawyers and buy Congressgits.

All rights have limitations, Scylla. Even the divine right of property, as embodied in the Free Market, blessings and peace by upon it. And when that right to spend as one chooses comes into conflict with human rights, civil rights, it must yield. If not, then our American principles mean diddly squat, there is only the Dollar Almighty.

As Tom Paine once remarked “Fuck that shit!”

[Scylla]

@elucidator

Scylla in a nutshell. So to speak.

Generally. As far as you are concerned. Yes. You are one of those other people who generally have no clue what they are talking about. The difference between you and Z is that you seem to be aware of your ignorance, and choose to hide it by not letting yourself get pinned down to actually holding a debatable position. You prefer not to say anything substantive but just editorialize about other people.

When actually called on to provide a cite, or defend a position, you run so fast it’s a joke.

Since I tend to debate authoritatively about things I truly know, yes, to argue with me after I’ve told you the way it is is pretty fucking stupid.

Comes the time when you actually want to actually stop playing coy dog, and actually attempt to contradict some of what I’ve said, you let me know. Ok?

But I’ve seen nothing but empty rhetoric from you for 10 years.

[Scylla]

Actually

[elucidator]

Well, gee whiz, another night of crying myself to sleep clutching my banky. But if someone else asks you why you apparently hold property rights to be above civil rights, you would answer them?

[Shayna]

@Scylla

First off, why should they make less money just because you are too stupid to do well for yourself and their relative success pisses you off?

I don’t have the time nor the stomach for the rest of your ignorant, self-important babbling bullshit, but I’ll take this on right here and right now.

Since you’re the one who suggested xkcd’s Money chart, how about you actually take more than just a cursory look at it, you dumbass. Here, I’ve pulled out the relevant part for you:

Average Worker And CEO Pay, 1965 vs 2007

                                          **1965**          **2007**
Production Worker Average Hourly Wage:  $ 19.61        $19.71
Typical CEO pay for the same period:    $490.31     $5,419.97

Look at the chart at the link. Go on, look at it. I mean it. You need the visual impact of this outrageous discrepancy.

The fact that you think it’s acceptable for the top 1% to suck EVERY. LAST. FUCKING. PENNY. OF. PROFIT. out of the pockets of the workers who actually generated that profit from the sweat of their labor; and that you’d dare to call those who’ve been ripped off by these greedy pigs “too stupid to do well” tells me all I need to know about you.

You disgust me. You sicken me.

Why in the ever loving bloody fuck should everyone but the goddamn elite have to live at the equivalent of 1965 wages? HUH? You think we haven’t worked our goddamn asses off for the people and corporations who’ve been bleeding us dry? Do you? Do you really?

You, them and your ilk love to rail and wail about how Democrats want government “socialism” and handouts but think not a goddamn thing is wrong with literally “socializing” the fucking GAMBLING LOSSES of the monied elite. Yeah, that’s right. The mighty get to spread their $21 BILLION in gambling debts around to all the rest of us every year when they deduct it from their tax returns.

And no, that figure does not include gambling losses written off by middle class Americans. That’s just what we cover for people who report AGI of a million fucking dollars or more a year.

We subsidize their fucking nannies, their irresponsible lack of insurance on their homes, their heating and air conditioning and even repairs to their farms and estates.

Millionaires sat on their lazy goddamn asses and collected $74 MILLION in unemployment checks last year. And I’m not talking about people who have a mil in the bank but had no income except unemployment during the year. I’m talking about people who reported at least a million dollars in income on their tax return in the same year they collected unemployment checks.

Wanna know what Leftwing Looney source I pulled that info from? Here:

Subsidies of the Rich & Famous ~ A report by Tom A. Coburn, M.D., U.S. Senator, Oklahoma.
The government safety net has been cast far and wide, with almost half of all American households now receiving some form of government assistance. But most taxpayers will be asking why when they learn who is receiving what.

From tax write-offs for gambling losses, vacation homes, and luxury yachts to subsidies for their ranches and estates, the government is subsidizing the lifestyles of the rich and famous. Multimillionaires are even receiving government checks for not working. This welfare for the well-off – costing billions of dollars a year – is being paid for with the taxes of the less fortunate, many who are working two jobs just to make ends meet, and IOUs to be paid off by future generations.

This is not an accidental loophole in the law. To the contrary, this reverse Robin Hood style of wealth redistribution is an intentional effort to get all Americans bought into a system where everyone appears to benefit. …

The government’s social safety net, which has long existed to catch those who are down and help them get back up, is now being used as a hammock by some millionaires, some who are paying less taxes than average middle class families. Comprehensive information on the full range of government benefits enjoyed by millionaires has never been collected previously. This report provides the first such compilation. What it reveals is sheer Washington stupidity with government policies pampering the wealthy costing taxpayers billions of dollars every year.

But government “socialism” is eeeevil. FINE, then give it up, asshole! Give every goddamn penny of it up Right Fucking NOW.

I bet you won’t though.

You’ve come to loooooove your socialist give-aways. You just don’t want the proletariat to have them. Oh no. We can’t have that. That’d be too much like “spreading the wealth around.”

Love how you guys have created all these dirty words and phrases to characterize the people you hate and resent but flat out refuse to acknowledge that they apply to a far greater extent to you.

I’m not pissed off at anyone’s success, relative or otherwise. I’m pissed off that their success was attained at the EXPENSE of every-fucking-body else. I’m pissed off that they have attained such a gargantuan portion of the national wealth that they can afford to buy our government so they can keep gaming the system to their sole benefit.

Theodore Roosevelt once said:
No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned. Every dollar received should represent a dollar’s worth of service rendered - not gambling in stocks, but service rendered. The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means.
How the fuck do you not get that?

Why should the 1% make less? Really? You fucking asked that with a straight fucking face, you dickless jerk?

How about because when the 1% literally STEAL and HOARD the profits off the sweat of the 99%, the 99% become destitute. And destitute people suffer greater health problems. And when the 1% prevent the government from taking care of the healthcare needs of its citizens with universal coverage, the 1% end up taking it up the ass anyway because we go bankrupt, lose our houses, don’t pay our credit card bills and then you get to pay for our funerals.

More from Teddy Roosevelt:
No man can be a good citizen unless he has a wage more than sufficient to cover the bare cost of living, and hours of labor short enough so that after his day’s work is done he will have time and energy to bear his share in the management of the community, to help in carrying the general load. We keep countless men from being good citizens by the conditions of life with which we surround them.
When we have nothing left but the runoff in the gutters to survive off of, we will come after your asses for creating this kind of sickass society.

And by G-d that’s exactly what we’re doing now.

Don’t like it? Too fucking bad. You created this mess. You’ve had 40 years to clean it up and you haven’t. You’ve had 6 Republican presidential terms and with each successive one you’ve fucked it up worse.

Get out of the goddamn way because we’re going to clean house now and I can promise you, you are not gonna like it one goddamn bit.

Suck on that Mr. Arrogance.

The New Nationalism ~ Theodore Roosevelt,

[Scylla]

@Shayna

I don’t have the time nor the stomach for the rest of your ignorant, self-important babbling bullshit, but I’ll take this on right here and right now.

In other words you concede that the stuff you are not addressing is correct. Ok.

Since you’re the one who suggested xkcd’s Money chart, how about you actually take more than just a cursory look at it, you dumbass. Here, I’ve pulled out the relevant part for you:

Average Worker And CEO Pay, 1965 vs 2007

                                          **1965**          **2007**
Production Worker Average Hourly Wage:  $ 19.61        $19.71
Typical CEO pay for the same period:    $490.31     $5,419.97

Look at the chart at the link. Go on, look at it. I mean it. You need the visual impact of this outrageous discrepancy.

The fact that you think it’s acceptable for the top 1% to suck EVERY. LAST. FUCKING. PENNY. OF. PROFIT. out of the pockets of the workers who actually generated that profit from the sweat of their labor; and that you’d dare to call those who’ve been ripped off by these greedy pigs “too stupid to do well” tells me all I need to know about you.

You disgust me. You sicken me.

Well, Shayna, that’s kind of funny. Like I said in my previous post, I think executive compensation is out of control and companies need to be run for the benefit of the shareholder.

So, I apparently I disgust you for something I said first, and you kind of agree with.

Why in the ever loving bloody fuck should everyone but the goddamn elite have to live at the equivalent of 1965 wages? HUH? You think we haven’t worked our goddamn asses off for the people and corporations who’ve been bleeding us dry? Do you? Do you really?

No. That’s umm why I said what I said. It’s also one of the reasons why I showed the chart, and said that there were some interesting points. I’m glad you liked it, and took the time to look at it.

I hope you will reconsider your opinion of me based on your mistaken perception of my stance.

You, them and your ilk love to rail and wail about how Democrats want government “socialism” and handouts but think not a goddamn thing is wrong with literally “socializing” the fucking GAMBLING LOSSES of the monied elite. Yeah, that’s right. The mighty get to spread their $21 BILLION in gambling debts around to all the rest of us every year when they deduct it from their tax returns.

And no, that figure does not include gambling losses written off by middle class Americans. That’s just what we cover for people who report AGI of a million fucking dollars or more a year.

We subsidize their fucking nannies, their irresponsible lack of insurance on their homes, their heating and air conditioning and even repairs to their farms and estates.

I take it you are referring to capitol loss right offs? It would help if you would tell me what it is you are referring to. I can’t read minds. Yet.

But, if it is Capitol losses, than, well, there are some reasons why some people think it’s a good idea. It incents the wealth to make their capitol available to smaller and riskier enterprises and they only really get a third of what they lose back in terms of tax deductions assuming a 33% marginal tax rate.

Millionaires sat on their lazy goddamn asses and collected $74 MILLION in unemployment checks last year. And I’m not talking about people who have a mil in the bank but had no income except unemployment during the year. I’m talking about people who reported at least a million dollars in income on their tax return in the same year they collected unemployment checks.

They still pay into unemployment insurance, don’t they? Why does it matter how much somebody makes? It’s an insurance policy that they pay for. If they are paying for a benefit that they are promised than they should get the benefit.

Wanna know what Leftwing Looney source I pulled that info from? Here:

No. Not really. I think you are bitching about something which is not rationally objectionable.

But government “socialism” is eeeevil. FINE, then give it up, asshole! Give every goddamn penny of it up Right Fucking NOW.

I bet you won’t though.

No. I’ve been paying into unemployment for more than 4 times the required amount to receive a full benefit. It’s an insurance policy, but it’s one of the worst ever. If I could have the money back and bought private insurance for less I would be far better off for far less money. So, seeing as I have been forced to pay into this system, I don’t see why I am not entitled just like every other person who has paid into it to receive my benefit should I be eligible. That’s what I was promised. That is what it says on my statement. I have bought and paid for this policy.

You’ve come to loooooove your socialist give-aways. You just don’t want the proletariat to have them. Oh no. We can’t have that. That’d be too much like “spreading the wealth around.”

It’s not a give away. It’s more like theft. I’m forced to buy a policy that is totally noncompetitive. Even if I recieve a full benefit for the maximum period right now, I will never get back what I paid in, assuming any reasonable and conservative rate of interest on that money.

I’m guessing you didn’t know that you have to pay for unemployment insurance. You didn’t know that, did you?

Love how you guys have created all these dirty words and phrases to characterize the people you hate and resent but flat out refuse to acknowledge that they apply to a far greater extent to you.

Like “ignorant shit for brains liberals who post about things they don’t know about?” Those kind of names?

I’m not pissed off at anyone’s success, relative or otherwise. I’m pissed off that their success was attained at the EXPENSE of every-fucking-body else. I’m pissed off that they have attained such a gargantuan portion of the national wealth that they can afford to buy our government so they can keep gaming the system to their sole benefit.

Yeah… I’ve heard this argument before. It seems to be nothing but an assertion. When it comes time to actually debate and prove that the accusation has merit it usually turn out to be empty rhetoric.

Theodore Roosevelt once said:
No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned. Every dollar received should represent a dollar’s worth of service rendered - not gambling in stocks, but service rendered. The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means.
How the fuck do you not get that?

I get it. The problem is that it’s wrong. Teddy was a pretty smart guy. He wasn’t right about everything though. IIRC he said some pretty racist things too. Are they correct because he said them?

Why should the 1% make less? Really? You fucking asked that with a straight fucking face, you dickless jerk?

Yes.

How about because when the 1% literally STEAL and HOARD the profits off the sweat of the 99%, the 99% become destitute. And destitute people suffer greater health problems. And when the 1% prevent the government from taking care of the healthcare needs of its citizens with universal coverage, the 1% end up taking it up the ass anyway because we go bankrupt, lose our houses, don’t pay our credit card bills and then you get to pay for our funerals.

How about you prove these claims? Hmmm?

Warren Buffet is a 1% Has he done these things? Bill Gates? Any of millions of other notable wealthy and responsible citizens and philanthropists thoughout history?

This is just bullshit Shayna.

More from Teddy Roosevelt:
No man can be a good citizen unless he has a wage more than sufficient to cover the bare cost of living, and hours of labor short enough so that after his day’s work is done he will have time and energy to bear his share in the management of the community, to help in carrying the general load. We keep countless men from being good citizens by the conditions of life with which we surround them.
When we have nothing left but the runoff in the gutters to survive off of, we will come after your asses for creating this kind of sickass society.

Oh please :rolleyes: You are a wealthy member of one of the wealthiest societies in history and you have the leisure to post on a message board. Presumably you didn’t get your computer from gutter runoff, did you? So, nice try. Anyway, I’m not a 1%. I hope to be someday in the not to distant future, but I’m not there yet.

Don’t like it? Too fucking bad. You created this mess. You’ve had 40 years to clean it up and you haven’t. You’ve had 6 Republican presidential terms and with each successive one you’ve fucked it up worse.

Ummmm… Really? I’m not sure how to refute this. I never considered that somebody could make such a stupid argument. And, apparently you can’t count, either. We had Bush for 2 Than we had Clinton for 2 (so clearly you are not talking in a row.) We had Bush for 1, Reagan for 2 Carter for 1 and Ford/Nixon for 2.

So, if you are going back to Ford/Nixon that gives us 7.

Where do you come up with 6. Why do you ignore the Democratic Presidents? Where are you coming up with this shit?

Do you have any respect for facts or accuracy at all, or do you… like most liberals just say whatever the hell happens to come into your head and then pretend it’s true?

Get out of the goddamn way because we’re going to clean house now and I can promise you, you are not gonna like it one goddamn bit.

Suck on that Mr. Arrogance.

Oh there’s a reason why we on the right hold all the guns and the money my little sweetie. Trust me, we’re not really all that afraid of a bunch of angry ignorant children.

What would scare me is if you knew what you were talking about and didn’t get your economic information from the music editor of the Rolling Stone.

You make me laugh, in a good way. I like you.

[Scylla]

Shayna:

Oh, and umm we need to either go back to your Rolling Stone post or too your previous post if we wish to continue. I’m not a big fan of having you post a whole bunch of flat out completely wrong and ignorant things, than having me correct them than having you completely ignore those corrections and then posting a whole new crop of misinformation. I think you need to either concede the areas in which I have claimed you are mistaken, or else defend them.

Ignoring them and making up new bullshit for me to correct is bad debating.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

Scylla, if you claim to hold the position that the wealth of the top earners and top corporate CEOs is out of control, then don’t post shit like this:

@Scylla

First off, why should they make less money just because you are too stupid to do well for yourself and their relative success pisses you off?

Shit like this, which is, by the way, completely ridiculous. This is kind of why we’re complaining in the first place, you know. Social movement is at an all-time low. The gap between the rich and the poor has become a gaping chasm, basically swallowing the American middle class. The fact is, we don’t have the same chances and opportunity they have. We aren’t as lucky, we didn’t have rich parents, we didn’t have the money or pedigree to go to an Ivy League school. We don’t have daddy’s connections or a gigantic inheritance (with a ridiculously low tax rate on it). Intelligence has far less to do with it than you seem to think.

[elucidator]

Even so, what if it were? Is intelligence a virtue, or a characteristic? Is intelligence a form of grace, then, that the smart man is more deserving than his duller brother? intelligence at the command of a generous character is a blessing to us all, but intelligence enslaved to grasping ambition? Not so much. A whole lot not so much.

We don’t accept that a strong man can beat up a weaker man and take his money. Why do we accept that a smart man can outwit some one less sophisticated and take his? What is it about grasping ambition we find so noble, that we insist it must be rewarded above all others? Why would we expect anything but a rat to win a rat race?

If the Free Market (blessings and peace be upon it) says that an expert in business and office politics is worth a thousand times more than a fireman, a teacher, or a cop, then the goddam Free Market is obviously fucking wrong. And if we stand about with our hands in our pockets while such injustice grows ever more so, then we are volunteering to take our bite of the shit sandwich. And there will never be enough mayonaisse for me, nor for quite a few others of us spoiled youth.

[Scylla]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

Scylla, if you claim to hold the position that the wealth of the top earners and top corporate CEOs is out of control, then don’t post shit like this:

I have no problem with wealth. I have no problem with extreme wealth. I think that Extreme compensation of the Executive suite is bad for the corporation, shareholders, public, and only enriches the executive suite. Private companies can do what they want.

Shit like this, which is, by the way, completely ridiculous. This is kind of why we’re complaining in the first place, you know. Social movement is at an all-time low. The gap between the rich and the poor has become a gaping chasm, basically swallowing the American middle class. The fact is, we don’t have the same chances and opportunity they have. We aren’t as lucky, we didn’t have rich parents, we didn’t have the money or pedigree to go to an Ivy League school. We don’t have daddy’s connections or a gigantic inheritance (with a ridiculously low tax rate on it). Intelligence has far less to do with it than you seem to think.

Yeah we’ve talked about that. It’s bullshit. If you are smart and good chances are you can get ahead. My dad was a Marine. I did it. It wasn’t that tough. All you have to do is give up the idea that your job is supposed to be rewarding and interesting, and realize that you have to work at things that nobody else wants to do, and do it well and without complaint. For years.

I kind of figure you can have an interesting and rewarding life, or an interesting and rewarding job… but not both unless you are very lucky.

If you lived near me, I could show you a dozen opportunities. The problem is that you probably wouldn’t see them that way.

[Scylla]

Elucidator:
Ok, let’s see “Shit sandwich, mayonaise, rat race…yadda yadda yadda.”
Yes, I can pretty much safely ignore this.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@Scylla

I have no problem with wealth. I have no problem with extreme wealth. I think that Extreme compensation of the Executive suite is bad for the corporation, shareholders, public, and only enriches the executive suite. Private companies can do what they want.

Oh, okay. I get it. You don’t object to the top earners in the country massively increasing their own earnings while not offering any of the produced wealth back to the multitude of workers under them because it’s morally reprehensible and massively unfair, due essentially to the same problems that made the industrial England Marx spoke a broken system. You object to it because it’s not good for the company.

Good to know where we stand on the issues.

Yeah we’ve talked about that. It’s bullshit. If you are smart and good chances are you can get ahead. My dad was a Marine. I did it. It wasn’t that tough. All you have to do is give up the idea that your job is supposed to be rewarding and interesting, and realize that you have to work at things that nobody else wants to do, and do it well and without complaint. For years.

I kind of figure you can have an interesting and rewarding life, or an interesting and rewarding job… but not both unless you are very lucky.

If you lived near me, I could show you a dozen opportunities. The problem is that you probably wouldn’t see them that way.

I think you’ll find that your special case is not the way the rest of the world works.

[Scylla]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

Oh, okay. I get it. You don’t object to the top earners in the country massively increasing their own earnings while not offering any of the produced wealth back to the multitude of workers under them because it’s morally reprehensible and massively unfair, due essentially to the same problems that made the industrial England Marx spoke a broken system. You object to it because it’s not good for the company.

Good to know where we stand on the issues.

Yes. The company is owned by the shareholders and it needs to be run with their interests in mind.

I think you’ll find that your special case is not the way the rest of the world works.

No. I’ve found that it works pretty much the way I think it does. Again, we’ve spoken social mobility in this very thread and it’s actually a little higher than I thought it would be.

There are several problems with statistics though, BBC. First off, they really don’t have anything to say about individuals. They really don’t affect you. They apply to large groups. For example, there are statistically very few interracial marriages. Based on this you might think that the chances of you having an interracial marriage are stacked against you. They are not. It’s just that few actually choose to go ahead and marry someone outside their race. There is nothing stopping you in the statistics though, and if that is what you really want it’s not very hard.

The second problem with statistics is that they don’t tell you why. They just tell you what.

For example, social mobility could be down because even the people at the lowest levels are extremely content and fulfilled, and it’s not worth the effort to try and move up because they can’t imagine being more content than they already are.

I don’t think that’s it, but its as valid an explanation as anything else.

You may say it’s a lack of opportunity.

Maybe it’s that. None of that stops any particular individual from doing what they want to do.

Like most other things, it’s a test of commitment and will more than anything else.

[Scylla]

BBC:

And anyway, aren’t you in Germany? So what the fuck do you know about the employment environment in the US? How could you while you hang out in the Black Forest eating gummi bears and building cuckoo clocks?

[Shodan]

You know who else hung out in the Black Forest?

No Gummi Bears, though.

Regards,
Shodan

[elucidator]

@Scylla

Elucidator:
Ok, let’s see “Shit sandwich, mayonaise, rat race…yadda yadda yadda.”
Yes, I can pretty much safely ignore this.

Ha! Yeah, right. If you had what you thought was a sharp, cogent, devastating riposte, no force on God’s green Earth would stop you. Hurricanes, earthquakes and **Scylla’s **ego, there are forces of nature that will not be thwarted.